vegas492 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Man. Young Clay was simply amazing. I had forgotten how quick and violent he was. Pickett really jumped off the film at me, too. He was violent and simply wouldn't be moved. Jenkins came and went. Tramon was also something special. Woddy got hurt so he didn't show all his stuff in that game. On offense, I thought it was kind of a coming out party for Jordy Nelson. Jennings was the primary guy, and believe me, he's much better than anything we have right now, but Jordy really had a great game...and he dropped some that could have made it an incredible game. Point taken on Jake Ryan. He's fine. DR is off the team. 2015 was a terrible draft class. Bad news for wanting ascending talent. I maintain that those 3rd year guys are what makes your team special or not. So that is a "not" for this year. Next year? Could be a different story as I'm still big on King, Jones and even Adams and Biegle. I never had a good feeling about that 2015 draft. Seeing young Clay in that game makes me think GB would be wise to draft two edges with their first two picks next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Seeing young Clay in that game makes me think GB would be wise to draft two edges with their first two picks next year. Why don't you watch and see how the edges play this year under a new DC first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 6 hours ago, vegas492 said: I said it. This is the worst roster I can remember GB having in a very long time. Pretty premature to say when the team just added 11 new rookies and a few free agents that you haven't seen play in GB yet. At first glance I feel better about the 2018 roster than the 2017, and 201 sure isn't a very long time ago but a lotta ball game left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, ArthurPensky said: Why don't you watch and see how the edges play this year under a new DC first? Because a new scheme isn't going to make Clay younger or Nick more explosive. They are what they are. And for all that those two are not, they are light years better than anything behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Just now, vegas492 said: Because a new scheme isn't going to make Clay younger or Nick more explosive. They are what they are. And for all that those two are not, they are light years better than anything behind them. While I think Nick and Clay are plenty explosive ( just not durable), you can't definitively say they're light years ahead of guys you haven't really seen play yet. Now, I don't think Biegel, Gilbert, ect are going to be Clay in his prime good or even Perry when healthy, but I haven't even really seen either of them play beyond limited rookie action so I sure am not going to say they're light years behind anyone either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, ArthurPensky said: Pretty premature to say when the team just added 11 new rookies and a few free agents that you haven't seen play in GB yet. I said it months ago, too. In order to be great, you need ascending young players. Solid vets get you so far, then you need those young horses to put you over the edge. GB has one blue chip guy. Rodgers. That is it. We need up and coming young guys to get it going. Our 2015 draft class offers nothing and that hurts. If you look at this year's roster and compare it to rosters from the past, it simply not as good. It is that simple. I don't expect everyone will share that opinion, but if I look objectively, our o-line is weaker than it has been in a long time. Our blue chip QB is coming off of another shoulder surgery. We signed 1 ancient vet to solve a problem at corner. Another aging vet who wasn't all that last year to solve that problem. And had to use our first two picks on corners to help address that problem. We are good up the middle. Even compared to the past, I'd say GB is better up the middle with this DL and this ILB corp, as I really like Martinez. Weaker at safety with an unknown Josh Jones and HHCD coming off of a down year. Much worst at WR than any point that I can remember. Graham is definite upgrade over anything at TE in a while. RB is okay. Even our long snapper, holder and punter are unknown right now. Despite all of this, Rodgers and his talent, if healthy, wins 8-9 games on his own. If the D can step it up, well, then there is the 10'th win. Over 10? I'd put that on some younger guys coming along better than expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 1 minute ago, ArthurPensky said: While I think Nick and Clay are plenty explosive ( just not durable), you can't definitively say they're light years ahead of guys you haven't really seen play yet. Now, I don't think Biegel, Gilbert, ect are going to be Clay in his prime good or even Perry when healthy, but I haven't even really seen either of them play beyond limited rookie action so I sure am not going to say they're light years behind anyone either. Watch high end edge guys sometime compared to Nick and Clay, you will re-define what you feel is "explosive". Clay doesn't have that anymore. He can get by on smarts and setting up moves, but he's not what he was a few years ago. Nick never was quick twitch. His game is power. And that game is most often injured. If the guys behind them were any better, they would have been stealing more snaps in past years. Instead the club has had to sign older vets like Peppers (great signing, IMO) and Brooks. If you don't want to watch anyone else...simply put on the Super Bowl and watch Clay on every play. The effort he brought then was flat out amazing. And that is not what he brings today, for whatever reason. Dude had a lot of energy and a lot of violence in his game then. As far as next year's draft goes...GB ignored the EDGE this year. Didn't do much for it last year. I'd have no problem with them double dipping that position right away. None. Can't have enough of them. I think GB finally got the corners right. King, Alexander, Jackson. I think the safeties will be good long term. The DL looks pretty good with Daniels and Clark. I'd like investments on the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaegybomb Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 20 hours ago, packfanfb said: Typical exaggeration. No one has said this. Rather, the point is simply that maybe the Packers shouldnt be satisfied at a starting WR position with an poor-athlete UDFA and three rookies who no team in the NFL felt was worthy of a top 130 draft pick. That was in response to all the "Good riddance to the guys we cut. Everyone fell off a cliff and was terrible last year." talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green19 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 45 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Because a new scheme isn't going to make Clay younger or Nick more explosive. They are what they are. And for all that those two are not, they are light years better than anything behind them. A new scheme/coach though can maximize what they are. New England has done it for years. They aren’t the most talented group, but they know their assignments and do what they need to do. Jaguars were clearly the “better” team... didn’t matter. New England was better in the big moments. I think that’s the hope on defense. That the talent is very much there.... I just hasn’t been maximized by past coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 36 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Watch high end edge guys sometime compared to Nick and Clay, you will re-define what you feel is "explosive". Clay doesn't have that anymore. He can get by on smarts and setting up moves, but he's not what he was a few years ago. Nick never was quick twitch. His game is power. And that game is most often injured. If the guys behind them were any better, they would have been stealing more snaps in past years. Instead the club has had to sign older vets like Peppers (great signing, IMO) and Brooks. If you don't want to watch anyone else...simply put on the Super Bowl and watch Clay on every play. The effort he brought then was flat out amazing. And that is not what he brings today, for whatever reason. Dude had a lot of energy and a lot of violence in his game then. Is it simply Clay " not having it anymore" or a also a ancient DC/ secondary personnel who couldn't do anything to stop the pass? How fast do you want Clay to win? But because it’s not a sack and we can’t cover.. Clay Matthews has nothing left? GTFO pic.twitter.com/rPgiOZWR1o — Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) April 13, 2018 It's obvious Perry isn't durable, but the guy ran a 4.64 40, 38.5 in vertical, and a 124 in broad jump at 271 lbs . All tops for his position at the combine. Not explosive?? C'mon man. Quote As far as next year's draft goes...GB ignored the EDGE this year. Didn't do much for it last year. I'd have no problem with them double dipping that position right away. None. Can't have enough of them. I think GB finally got the corners right. King, Alexander, Jackson. I think the safeties will be good long term. The DL looks pretty good with Daniels and Clark. I'd like investments on the edge. No one in their right mind would disagree with drafting one or multiple EDGES early in 2019 if the EDGEs are bad in 2018... Let it play out first in 2018 is what a logical mind will say. If Biegel and Gilbert somehow turned into stud you gonna spend two 1st rounders on EDGE simply because of the position? No. Is that going to happen? Probably not, but its premature to advocate 2 2019 first rounders on any position right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 18 hours ago, vegas492 said: Despite all of this, Rodgers and his talent, if healthy, wins 8-9 games on his own. If the D can step it up, well, then there is the 10'th win. Over 10? I'd put that on some younger guys coming along better than expected. I mean, I get being skeptical or pessimistic about our chances but we're a year removed from consistent 10 wins seasons, and last year we won 7 games despite missing Rodgers missing most of the season. Hell, Brett Hundley won 3 games as the starting QB. Last year, Aaron Jones and Jamaal Williams had a combined 234 rushing attempts for 1004 rushing yards and 8 rushing TD. If those numbers were by a single back, we'd have a RB who was 13th in rushing attempts, 10th in rushing yards, and T-6th in rushing TD. RB success is pretty safe to translate all things considered, so I don't really see RB as a need or an issue quite frankly. As I've mentioned before, most team's #3 WR aren't very good and they certainly don't pay them very much. Don't let the abundance of riches that we've had at WR over the years cloud your judgement. As I've mentioned, Geronimo Allison compares similar to other teams' #3 WRs in terms of level of commitment. OL shouldn't be a level of concern given how they played last year despite missing Bryan Bulaga at RT. Defensively, this is probably the deepest our DL group has been since we ran a 43 defense and had several DTs who rotated in to play. We've committed more to the ILB position than we've ever committed to under TT, and you've got some good athletes to play there now. Our EDGE are a bit of a concern in terms of depth. And we've thrown two high picks at CB again, players who are naturally corners not transitioning corners. As for safety, I get the level of comfort with Burnett, but his injury concerns and his age are weighing against him. We might have some growing pains with Josh Jones early, but I have little doubt we're better with him moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilltray Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Rodgers the only blue chip guy? Bakhtiari? Adams? Clark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 19 minutes ago, spilltray said: Rodgers the only blue chip guy? Bakhtiari? Adams? Clark? Seriously. A buddy (Seahawks fan) and I just had a discussion about the Top 10 WRs in the NFL. We got stuck at Top 9. #10 spot has like 5-6 players you could argue for, but Adams is clearly in that Top 9 at the moment. 2nd best WR in the NFC North IMHO and there's a bunch of good ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Cadmus said: Seriously. A buddy (Seahawks fan) and I just had a discussion about the Top 10 WRs in the NFL. We got stuck at Top 9. #10 spot has like 5-6 players you could argue for, but Adams is clearly in that Top 9 at the moment. 2nd best WR in the NFC North IMHO and there's a bunch of good ones. You are friends with a Seahawks fan? You're dead to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 4 hours ago, NormSizedMidget said: You are friends with a Seahawks fan? You're dead to me. He gets a pass, just this one time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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