Packers Off-season Mini-Camp/Training Camp Discussion Thread

[Chili]

1 hour ago, Pugger said:

Maybe they should move Conor to guard.  I have a feeling he'll do anything they ask.

I had a look again at Conor's pro day numbers to see it he fits the OL athleticism thresholds and he fufilled almost every one! Interesting......

If he did make the switch he would still need to add 15lbs and sort out his strength and technique work.

[Packerraymond]

57 minutes ago, Cadmus said:

Interested to see if they keep Marcus Bryan now that Gibson seems like a lost cause and they only have 5 TEs.  

He was a basketball player in college, but a 6'7" 250ish lb athlete seems like he could be an interesting project.

He looks like a monster in the photos, like Jimmy Graham size. I hope he makes it too just to see if he can progress.

[chillparsi1]

One of my favorite thin about this weekend is just getting to see (read: over-analyze because starved for football) the first locker room interviews with these guys. Some thoughts (yes I know these have no solid foundation):

• Love how Alexander and Jackson are kind of counterbalances - both on field and off. Jaire, as we know is louder and more chatty, Jackson just seems to be a quiet angry man. I did find it interesting that Jaire said he felt out of shape - rust is one thing, but I"d expect the combine prep and all would keep people in shape. I guess football shape is very different.
• Cole Madison fits like a glove with the types of OL we've had. Was excited about anyway him just cause he's the only OL we took this year, but he seems super likeable too. 
• As @HorizontoZenith has pointed out - JK Scott comes off as a kid out of high school still. STOP SAYING LIKE
• Of the WRs: J'Mon came off as very confident (maybe not in a good way like Jaire), MVS sounds the most grounded, and I gained a fair amount of respect for ESB. ESB isn't overplaying the "I feel slighted, so I'm gonna prove it." I also just think he came off as more cerebral than I expected - might actually help him click with Aaron better. 
• Looney seems like a giant teddy bear and I suspect everybody is gonna like him.

 

[Cakeshoppe]

1 hour ago, chillparsi1 said:

One of my favorite thin about this weekend is just getting to see (read: over-analyze because starved for football) the first locker room interviews with these guys. Some thoughts (yes I know these have no solid foundation):

• Love how Alexander and Jackson are kind of counterbalances - both on field and off. Jaire, as we know is louder and more chatty, Jackson just seems to be a quiet angry man. I did find it interesting that Jaire said he felt out of shape - rust is one thing, but I"d expect the combine prep and all would keep people in shape. I guess football shape is very different.
• Cole Madison fits like a glove with the types of OL we've had. Was excited about anyway him just cause he's the only OL we took this year, but he seems super likeable too. 
• As @HorizontoZenith has pointed out - JK Scott comes off as a kid out of high school still. STOP SAYING LIKE
• Of the WRs: J'Mon came off as very confident (maybe not in a good way like Jaire), MVS sounds the most grounded, and I gained a fair amount of respect for ESB. ESB isn't overplaying the "I feel slighted, so I'm gonna prove it." I also just think he came off as more cerebral than I expected - might actually help him click with Aaron better. 
• Looney seems like a giant teddy bear and I suspect everybody is gonna like him.

 

I don't know if you saw this, but dude had a 4.0 and can speak like 4 languages. I'm not worried about his head in that regard at least.

[Green19]

15 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

According to one of the local hosts on Milwaukee sports talk radio who was at camp today EQ embarrassed Jackson on the first snap of 7 on 7 when they asked Jackson to get up at the line and press.

I really hope this isn't the attitude the 2018 Packers are going to take toward their players or we didn't learn a damn thing from the regime change.

You ranked Jackson highly and you know who he is, he's not a press corner. He's a bail corner. While that might not be the way you want your defense to play, too bad, then you shouldn't have drafted him. He led the NCAA in passes defended, INTs and didn't allow a single catch over 30 yards all season, so you know he's damn good and was successful. His instincts are rare and he's got some elite short area quickness too. I get wanted to teach him all the techniques, but if you treat Jackson like he's Kevin King, he will fail, and vice versa if you treated King like Jackson. Jackson will have to play bail and keep his eyes on the QB if you want him to play this year, otherwise put him down by Pipkins and Hawkins on the DC, he's not playing.

I understand this is an overreaction to a blurb about day 1 of camp but IMO this was the greatest failure of the Ted/Mike/Dom era. Despite people believing all of them sucked at their jobs, I think that's simply false, they just had a stubbornness to them. We drafted good football players and then forced those plays to play under a set scheme. I will always be a believer in tailoring your scheme to your players, but the past few years in GB we've done the opposite. That's why your Datone Jones', Thornton's and Worthy's have been instant flops here and why Hayward and Hyde can go he All Pro elsewhere.

You isolate what your players are good at and go out there and let them play to their strengths. If we move from Dom to Pettine and keep the same attitude of, "this is the scheme, learn it, play it and do it a certain way" be prepared for another mediocre defense. 

He is a corner... he is going to get beat. Alexander who everyone says is amazing at man to man (heck Kiper’s comparison for him is Deion Sanders) got “embrassed” by Moore.

practice is the best time to play a guy man to man that struggles in man to man.... cause it doesn’t count. They get tape, they can change technique, etc.

People need to let this idea go he can’t play man. He played the whole Minnesota game in man. Most red zone matchups he is in man. Also let him play man in a game. If he wins the first 2 seconds of his coverage the QB is moving on in his reads. He has the side line... there are a bunch of things practice doesn’t simulate.

[blankman0021]

1 hour ago, chillparsi1 said:

Jaire said he felt out of shape - rust is one thing, but I"d expect the combine prep and all would keep people in shape. I guess football shape is very different.

 

Ive heard that a lot of prospects come in a bit rusty on conditioning. Many of them are flying around the country the last month. Takes its toll. 

[chillparsi1]

12 minutes ago, Cakeshoppe said:

I don't know if you saw this, but dude had a 4.0 and can speak like 4 languages. I'm not worried about his head in that regard at least.

In the way I use them there's a difference between those - which I'd call intelligence (or just hard work + discipline) - and being cerebral. One is the ability to learn and apply, the other is the ability to think abstractly. That's at least how I use it .

Also, not that it's anything to scoff at (I sure as hell didn't have it) but I think the 4.0 was in HS not college. 

[Leader]

 

[Uffdaswede]

1 hour ago, Green19 said:

 

People need to let this idea go he can’t play man. He played the whole Minnesota game in man. Most red zone matchups he is in man. Also let him play man in a game. If he wins the first 2 seconds of his coverage the QB is moving on in his reads. He has the side line... there are a bunch of things practice doesn’t simulate.

I think Ray made it clear that this one first impression of JJ brought about a concern that had only tangentially to do with JJ; the team has spent too much draft capital on players asked to  play roles that fit a scheme rather than their strengths.

You and others are making excellent points, but I think you are missing Ray’s real concern regarding player strengths vs too much commitment to a hard-drawn scheme. 

[Packerraymond]

1 hour ago, Green19 said:

He is a corner... he is going to get beat. Alexander who everyone says is amazing at man to man (heck Kiper’s comparison for him is Deion Sanders) got “embrassed” by Moore.

practice is the best time to play a guy man to man that struggles in man to man.... cause it doesn’t count. They get tape, they can change technique, etc.

People need to let this idea go he can’t play man. He played the whole Minnesota game in man. Most red zone matchups he is in man. Also let him play man in a game. If he wins the first 2 seconds of his coverage the QB is moving on in his reads. He has the side line... there are a bunch of things practice doesn’t simulate.

Where did I say anything about him not playing man?

He can't press or pedal. That's fine, let him turn and bail. I have no problem with them having him try and fail now. My point was that the past staff would have him play that way during the season too. If he doesn't get it, fine, he can perform just fine bailing.

[St Vince]

Don't know who this guy is but his video has me super pumped for this training camp and upcoming season. This one draft could do for the Packers what the 2017 draft did for the Saints.

[Packerraymond]

2 minutes ago, blueswedeshoes said:

I think Ray made it clear that this one first impression of JJ brought about a concern that had only tangentially to do with JJ; the team has spent too much draft capital on players asked to  play roles that fit a scheme rather than their strengths.

You and others are making excellent points, but I think you are missing Ray’s real concern regarding player strengths vs too much commitment to a hard-drawn scheme. 

Finally someone gets it. Nothing to do with any singular player and more to do with forcing players to play the coaches way, regardless if that's a strength of theirs.

Why does Janis have to run a full route tree, let him get 20-30 targets and year on 7,8,9 routes.

Why did you draft Quentin Rollins to be a man CB? Why are you looking for ball skills and instincts in the draft and then playing these guys M2M?

The examples of misuse go on and on. Jackson has a chance to be elite if you just let him bail and watch the QB, don't change him into something he's not.

[MantyWrestler]

17 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

According to one of the local hosts on Milwaukee sports talk radio who was at camp today EQ embarrassed Jackson on the first snap of 7 on 7 when they asked Jackson to get up at the line and press.

I really hope this isn't the attitude the 2018 Packers are going to take toward their players or we didn't learn a damn thing from the regime change.

You ranked Jackson highly and you know who he is, he's not a press corner. He's a bail corner. While that might not be the way you want your defense to play, too bad, then you shouldn't have drafted him. He led the NCAA in passes defended, INTs and didn't allow a single catch over 30 yards all season, so you know he's damn good and was successful. His instincts are rare and he's got some elite short area quickness too. I get wanted to teach him all the techniques, but if you treat Jackson like he's Kevin King, he will fail, and vice versa if you treated King like Jackson. Jackson will have to play bail and keep his eyes on the QB if you want him to play this year, otherwise put him down by Pipkins and Hawkins on the DC, he's not playing.

I understand this is an overreaction to a blurb about day 1 of camp but IMO this was the greatest failure of the Ted/Mike/Dom era. Despite people believing all of them sucked at their jobs, I think that's simply false, they just had a stubbornness to them. We drafted good football players and then forced those plays to play under a set scheme. I will always be a believer in tailoring your scheme to your players, but the past few years in GB we've done the opposite. That's why your Datone Jones', Thornton's and Worthy's have been instant flops here and why Hayward and Hyde can go he All Pro elsewhere.

You isolate what your players are good at and go out there and let them play to their strengths. If we move from Dom to Pettine and keep the same attitude of, "this is the scheme, learn it, play it and do it a certain way" be prepared for another mediocre defense. 

Maybe they’re just trying to see what he can do. Hate saying relax but... relax. 

[Green19]

9 minutes ago, blueswedeshoes said:

I think Ray made it clear that this one first impression of JJ brought about a concern that had only tangentially to do with JJ; the team has spent too much draft capital on players asked to  play roles that fit a scheme rather than their strengths.

You and others are making excellent points, but I think you are missing Ray’s real concern regarding player strengths vs too much commitment to a hard-drawn scheme. 

And my argument is... it’s the off-season. No one knows how Pettine is going to play any of these guys. Can’t judge them based off the sins of their predecessors.

Plus part of drafting is projecting the prospect. Yeah Jackson does “this” amazing but not “that”... is it because of Jackson himself or Iowa? Pettine said let’s see what we have and get these guys on campus. Part of seeing what you have is putting players in every spot their position traditionally requires. Maybe Jackson can be Richard Sherman in man... just needs someone to teach him technique and a coaching staff willing to keep putting him in that position to get better.

And as AlexGreen said the guys Ted projected on... he wasn’t “wrong” they just didn’t work out. Randall was in fact a good corner, if he wasn’t everyone wouldn’t of lost their minds when they traded him. Sometimes it’s other things rather than coaches using players wrong.

My argument of why Capers needed to go and why he wasn’t working is simple: capers needs vested veterans that understand his system. What has GB been dealing with the last decade? Injuries and a backend of the roster filled with rookies and second year players. So when a guy got hurt a 6 year vet wasn’t stepping in to replace him. It was a philosophy issue between roster building and coaching. Look at Pittsburgh, they run Capers scheme, they never really play rookies... like ever. They are an older established roster. It’s why they are pretty consistent, although they have been having issues lately too (not knowing too much about them, I’m sure it’s similar to GB’s issues).

 

[Cadmus]

 

A pretty good article on Marcus Bryan. Based on the quote from his father... he might bit heavier (possibly 265) than the 242 (his listed weight on the basketball team). 

http://www.starnewsonline.com/sports/20180505/uncw-alum-bryan-earns-tryout-with-green-bay 

A few quotes. 

Quote

UNCW assistant basketball coach Joe Wolf set up a tryout in Wilmington a few weeks back. Representatives from the team came down and put Bryan through a series of drills and interviews. “They liked what they saw, so they reached out to him. They gave him an NFL football and said, ’Practice catching this. We’ll be in touch,” Bryan’s father, Marcus Bryan Sr., said.

 

Quote

Bryan played football as a senior at defensive end and tight end. Stats for that season were not available on MaxPreps. In middle school, Bryan played quarterback before shifting his focus to basketball.

 

Quote

The Packers have a current tight end who took a similar path to the NFL in Jimmy Graham. After serving as a starting power forward for Miami, Graham played one season with the Hurricanes in football as a grad student, eventually leading to his selection in the NFL Draft. He’s been to the Pro Bowl five times since 2010. “I’m hoping that’s what they see in Marcus because they’re the same build – 6-7, 6-8, 265 (pounds),” Marcus Bryan Sr. said.

 

Interested to see what happens here. The TEs behind Graham and Kendricks... 2 guys are sub 240 and the other makes Richard Rodgers look fast.