Packers Off-season Mini-Camp/Training Camp Discussion Thread

[Blink]

51 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Cover corners who press all the time generally don't take the ball away at a good clip. Your focus is more on the WR than the QB. 

If you drafted Josh Jackson to be that guy with Isaiah Oliver on the board you flat out wasted your pick. You play Jackson in bail like you would a Josh Norman or Sherman (and Jackson's a better athlete than those two). You let him read the QBs eyes and take the ball away.

Ideally King comes back stronger than ever and is ready to simply fight and scrap with the other teams #1 every week. He's our cover guy, he's built for that. Then QBs have to throw at Alexander and Jackson and that will be a risky proposition with their ball skills.

 

 

 

Im not disputing the issue that thus far bail and read is easily his biggest strength, what I dispute is the notion that the staff shouldn’t even try to see if he could improve his press cover game to make him more rounded as a player.

 

No matter what skill set you possess the NFL is going to occasionally make you do things that aren’t your best, I legitimately cannot are anything wrong what so ever with team testing his limits early.

[seanjoneslocker]

I would love to remind everyone to look up and notice that the sky is not falling......  This is the time of year to get excited, let's all take a chill pill and enjoy for a minute.

[Arthur Penske]

13 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

Cover corners who press all the time generally don't take the ball away at a good clip. Your focus is more on the WR than the QB. 

If you drafted Josh Jackson to be that guy with Isaiah Oliver on the board you flat out wasted your pick. You play Jackson in bail like you would a Josh Norman or Sherman (and Jackson's a better athlete than those two). You let him read the QBs eyes and take the ball away.

Ideally King comes back stronger than ever and is ready to simply fight and scrap with the other teams #1 every week. He's our cover guy, he's built for that. Then QBs have to throw at Alexander and Jackson and that will be a risky proposition with their ball skills.

 

This kind of seems to skip over Tramon. Paying him a good deal of money to sit on the bench and play rookies/ 2nd year players?

[Green19]

13 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

Cover corners who press all the time generally don't take the ball away at a good clip. Your focus is more on the WR than the QB. 

If you drafted Josh Jackson to be that guy with Isaiah Oliver on the board you flat out wasted your pick. You play Jackson in bail like you would a Josh Norman or Sherman (and Jackson's a better athlete than those two). You let him read the QBs eyes and take the ball away.

Ideally King comes back stronger than ever and is ready to simply fight and scrap with the other teams #1 every week. He's our cover guy, he's built for that. Then QBs have to throw at Alexander and Jackson and that will be a risky proposition with their ball skills.

 

Sometimes Pettine is going to want to run a play that requires all CBs to press. To keep the QB from throwing quickly... everyone needs to be able to play multiple techniques.

Also just playing a guy a certain way all the time... leads to figuring out the defense quickly. The reason Jackson’s press bail worked a lot was because... well he played press. And did it enough for QBs to believe he was going to play that coverage when he showed it.

Like everyone else I’m not advocating just make him a press corner 100% of the time. But he is too early in his development to think he can’t simply do it.

[Leader]

16 minutes ago, Green19 said:

Sometimes Pettine is going to want to run a play that requires all CBs to press. To keep the QB from throwing quickly... everyone needs to be able to play multiple techniques.

Also just playing a guy a certain way all the time... leads to figuring out the defense quickly. The reason Jackson’s press bail worked a lot was because... well he played press. And did it enough for QBs to believe he was going to play that coverage when he showed it.

Like everyone else I’m not advocating just make him a press corner 100% of the time. But he is too early in his development to think he can’t simply do it.

Thats not what PK is saying or advocating. Sure Jackson can grow / evolve and at times he'll need to man up - but PK's (accurately in my view) recognizing Jacksons skill set and hoping we utilize it to its greatest advantage. Thats pretty much it.

[squire12]

Draft and develop.  Let the staff try to develop a more complete package of a CB player in Jackson.  

Seems a little early to be limiting the aspects of Jackson's game that could serve him and GB well down the road.

[Green19]

4 minutes ago, Leader said:

Thats not what PK is saying or advocating. Sure Jackson can grow / evolve and at times he'll need to man up - but PK's (accurately in my view) recognizing Jacksons skill set and hoping we utilize it to its greatest advantage. Thats pretty much it.

 

“I don't think he'll ever be a press corner, that doesn't mean he can't play M2M.”

 

PK wrote this early in the thread. My point is, as a coach, you can’t have this thought. The guy has only played corner 2 years and 1 of those years he was on the bench. After 1 year you can’t say he’ll never be a press corner.

 

Now time might prove that statement true. But you still need to take the time to practice and play him in those spots to get to that conclusion.

 

Plus everyone loves Jackson’s INTs and points to that being what he needs to do. 5 or his 8 INTs came in 2 games... of a 12 game season. That’s 3 INTs in the other 10.

 

Why because in other games Iowa’s coaching staff likely needed him to play man and even press man to help them win because that was the coverage they needed.

[spilltray]

1 hour ago, ArthurPensky said:

This kind of seems to skip over Tramon. Paying him a good deal of money to sit on the bench and play rookies/ 2nd year players?

2/10 isn't a ton. 1.6 dead if he's gone next year.

[Arthur Penske]

15 minutes ago, spilltray said:

2/10 isn't a ton. 1.6 dead if he's gone next year.

This year. He's going to play.

[TheOnlyThing]

Well one Packer scribe seems to think Rollins' future is at Safety.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/03/could-move-to-safety-revive-quinten-rollins-career/

Any chance he (A) makes the position switch and (B) finds success if he does so?

[packfanfb]

10 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Well one Packer scribe seems to think Rollins' future is at Safety.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/03/could-move-to-safety-revive-quinten-rollins-career/

Any chance he (A) makes the position switch and (B) finds success if he does so?

He's going to have to, his days at CB are done. Hell they were probably done before the latest injury. 

[packfanfb]

16 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

If you drafted Josh Jackson to be that guy with Isaiah Oliver on the board you flat out wasted your pick. You play Jackson in bail like you would a Josh Norman or Sherman (and Jackson's a better athlete than those two). You let him read the QBs eyes and take the ball away.

Going to be interesting comparing Oliver to Jackson the next few years. Always thought Oliver was a much better fit for our team and even today I'm somewhat surprised Jackson was the pick over him. 

[Green19]

6 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Going to be interesting comparing Oliver to Jackson the next few years. Always thought Oliver was a much better fit for our team and even today I'm somewhat surprised Jackson was the pick over him. 

I think given McCarthy’s comments and GB’s recent history on defense... Ball hawking skills are a big reason why Jackson was the pick and likely a higher rated player.

Plus they love versatility and Jackson showed more then Oliver. If GB wanted just a pure boundary corner... Oliver is that.  There is at least some hope Jackson could man the slot CB position. Although it’s likely not his ideal spot.

[Leader]

 

[Packerraymond]

2 hours ago, Green19 said:

 

“I don't think he'll ever be a press corner, that doesn't mean he can't play M2M.”

 

PK wrote this early in the thread. My point is, as a coach, you can’t have this thought. The guy has only played corner 2 years and 1 of those years he was on the bench. After 1 year you can’t say he’ll never be a press corner.

 

Now time might prove that statement true. But you still need to take the time to practice and play him in those spots to get to that conclusion.

 

Plus everyone loves Jackson’s INTs and points to that being what he needs to do. 5 or his 8 INTs came in 2 games... of a 12 game season. That’s 3 INTs in the other 10.

 

Why because in other games Iowa’s coaching staff likely needed him to play man and even press man to help them win because that was the coverage they needed.

Shields was never really a press guy, Randall was on and off, Hayward didn't really press. Pressing isn't some requirement to be a good CB. He can be an All Pro and never press a single play in his life. It's not a trait like accuracy for a QB or vision for a RB. It's a complimentary trait, like mobility for a QB. How often does NE move the pocket for Brady and bootleg him around? Rarely. Does it make him any less of a QB? No.

I have no problems with him practicing it. You're again missing my overarching point. If he doesn't nail it down, I don't want to see it in games. With Dom, you'd see it, because that's what the scheme required. I want the end to that mentality and the start to us evaluating our players strengths and weaknesses and putting them in situations to succeed in games.