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2019 NFL Draft - Quarterbacks

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9 hours ago, Broncofan said:

He’s probably getting 1 more chance.  He’s definitely getting heat.   He’s only 3 years from the pinnacle - so he’s going to get a little more leash.  Brock wasn’t the same level mistake (although he wasn’t good, he wasn’t nearly the same investment, either).    But he’s no longer Teflon-level safe, either - Lynch was his major fail (Siemian was the fallback while they waited for Lynch), and for whatever reason he and Kubiak took their next shot not on the deepest top end QB class in several years - but on Case freaking Keenum.  

So yeah it’s a big issue now.  One big miss is understandable (Siemian was out of necessity).  But two is no longer easy to write off.  So yeah, the seat’s starting to warm.  He does likely get a final shot, though, for both QB and HC.  

Elway is touted as great GM but yeah he's just fortunate to have drafted Von Miller, and had Peyton Manning fall into his lap. If you ask me.

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On 10/9/2018 at 9:05 AM, Broncofan said:

I agree he'd shoot way up the rankings..and in this class, it could easily be argued.  But man, the uncertainty with even him would be sky-high for a Rd1 pick.  Let's face it, 2-3 QB's are going to go Rd1.   Right now, the only guy I think earns that grade is Herbert.   Everyone else, it's so iffy, the flags are very real either in physical limits / throwing ability / reading & recognition / game experience against good teams.   And most of them have at least 2 areas.   Man, it's just not a good year to think you need to hit QB early.

If he performs well at the combine and senior bowl as well as the rest of the season. I bet you anything he will just into the Top 15. Hell look at what the Eagles gave up for a unproven prospect for the Div-2 school.

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25 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

If he performs well at the combine and senior bowl as well as the rest of the season. I bet you anything he will just into the Top 15. Hell look at what the Eagles gave up for a unproven prospect for the Div-2 school.

Montez is only a junior, so no Senior Bowl for him. I've watched every game Montez has ever played, and I think some team is going to fall in love with his skill set. His stats are clearly inflated playing in CU's offense with a lot of screen and "pop-passes" (ie., forward pass jet sweeps), but he's grown tremendously from last season to this season. The improvements he's made in his footwork and mechanics are paying off. He throws an accurate deep ball, is built for the NFL, is a great competitor and leader, and can make every throw on the field, even if he isn't asked too.

Would I spend a round 1 pick on him? At this point no, but that could change over the next 6 weeks of the season as they won't be favored in any game aside from Oregon State. Combine that with an incredibly shallow crop of QBs, and I think he could have legit shot at surpassing Herbert on some teams boards. 

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2 hours ago, MakeDenverGreatAgain said:

Montez is only a junior, so no Senior Bowl for him. I've watched every game Montez has ever played, and I think some team is going to fall in love with his skill set. His stats are clearly inflated playing in CU's offense with a lot of screen and "pop-passes" (ie., forward pass jet sweeps), but he's grown tremendously from last season to this season. The improvements he's made in his footwork and mechanics are paying off. He throws an accurate deep ball, is built for the NFL, is a great competitor and leader, and can make every throw on the field, even if he isn't asked too.

Would I spend a round 1 pick on him? At this point no, but that could change over the next 6 weeks of the season as they won't be favored in any game aside from Oregon State. Combine that with an incredibly shallow crop of QBs, and I think he could have legit shot at surpassing Herbert on some teams boards. 

I believe he's a redshirt junior. 4th year juniors are eligible for the senior bowl if they've graduated, I believe. I'm not sure if he's graduated or not. 

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6 hours ago, Danger said:

Elway is touted as great GM but yeah he's just fortunate to have drafted Von Miller, and had Peyton Manning fall into his lap. If you ask me.

Meh, his draft record for 2011-13 actually is why we had the run of success we did and it extended well past Von - Miller, Marshall, Trevathan, Malik Jackson, Derek Wolfe, Chris Harris Jr on D as draft/UDFA guys, Darian Stewart as a 4M/2-year Pro Bowl pick.  Then he got Emmanuel Sanders on a 15M/3-year deal to go with DT, and he did get CJ Anderson as another UDFA gem.   He did spend up to get Peyton, but he also took a chance when no other teams were willing to spend 20M on Peyton's neck.  And he paid up for Ware & Talib to round out our legendary, generational D in 2015 (SEA in 2013, BAL in 2001 level).    And the whole time, he did that while still keeping us cap-friendly - no back-loaded deals, and up until this year, had not once been forced to restructure a deal into a big worry-about-it-later salary-to-bonus conversion.   So great cap management, FA acquisitions, and draft success, especially in Day 3 (from 2013 on, he never could shake the Day 2 bug).

The big difference is that as of 2013, Elway changed his draft style in 3 important ways - first, he started drafting early with a 1-player away mentality in Rd 1-2, rather than Big Board BPA.   That killed us with guys like Sly Williams, Garrett Bolles, and yes, Paxton Lynch.  Secondly, he started falling in love with insane tool - no football skills guys and could NOT risk losing them later on - so reached horribly in Day 2.   Right now, from 2013-17, with 12 picks I think we had 1 year 2-3 starter - Justin Simmons.  1 out of 12 is horrible.   Finally, in 2017 he started going after speed-is-everything type players after watching Tyreke Hill destroy us in 2016 - so he took again low football-skill/raw speed guys - and that's led to literally 3 2017 draftees already cut on the team, one who's an inactive each game or back of the bench (Demarcus Walker), and a LT who's probably the worst pass-blocking LT in the game (which is saying something)...and who's overage at 26, instead of taking a more polished T in Ryan Ramczyk (and could have traded back to 1.28 and got that done), or taken ILB Reuben Foster at 1.20..or traded up to get OJ Howard (Elway confirmed that all 3 opportunities were available to him the next day, but showed how much he wanted Bolles).   So yeah...rough recent record.

Ultimately, though, the QB whiffs are the biggest issue.   Ironically, Elway brought in metrics analysis, and Gary Kubiak, and that led to a much better 2018 draft, with actual football skill guys with some ceiling still left.   So there's hope there.   But the one big miss could very well be choosing high-effort, good-at-everything-but-not-elite-pass-rusher Bradley Chubb at 1.5 - and going with Keenum at 36M/2 years instead.   That could haunt us.  And if Elway completes the trifecta by taking the wrong QB in Rd1 2019, then yeah, he'll deserve the heat.    But now that he's seemed to change his draft methodology, it's too much to say he's a bad GM.  He's just bad at QB evaluation with Kubiak - and he's also not willing to give up on seasons when we should be rebuilding.   The latter problem can be fixed, we know he's done it before.  DEN is just spoiled, but the reality is that a 1-2 year rebuild is what we need.  It's just too bad Elway didn't realize this before we had the 2018 draft, with the deepest top-end draft in years.  Now we have to pray that Chad Kelly has some hope, or we are really faced with a possible desperation-induced reach for 2019 Rd1...when we had our QBOTF without reaching at 1.5 in 2018.  Ugh.

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3 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

If he performs well at the combine and senior bowl as well as the rest of the season. I bet you anything he will just into the Top 15. Hell look at what the Eagles gave up for a unproven prospect for the Div-2 school.

No argument, we all know 2-3 QB's are going Rd1.  It's just the risk with him will be way higher than it was for any of the top 3 QB's this past year.  Hell, that applies to Herbert, for that matter (and every other QB in this class - none of them sniff the top 4 in last year's draft, and I'm not an Allen believer).   Oh well.

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My very amateur and limited analysis of Dwayne Haskins is:

Positives:

  • Arm Strength
  • Very quick release
  • Ball placement
  • Able to thread the needle and make all the throws
  • NFL body (6'3 220lbs)

Negatives:

  • One read then check down
  • Movement in pocket (gets to the end of his drop and doesn't climb the pocket) 
  • Accuracy suffers under even a little pressure

He would really benefit from another year at the college level but he has a lot of tools to really like.

 

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On 10/9/2018 at 9:51 AM, thebestever6 said:

Is Milton from ucf not draftable in your opinion?

It only takes one team to like him but I'd lean UDFA at this point and possibly switching positions. He's kind of a poor man's Taylor Heinicke. I think consistent accuracy and arm velocity are issues despite all the production.

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19 hours ago, grizmo78 said:

My very amateur and limited analysis of Dwayne Haskins is:

Positives:

  • Arm Strength
  • Very quick release
  • Ball placement
  • Able to thread the needle and make all the throws
  • NFL body (6'3 220lbs)

Negatives:

  • One read then check down
  • Movement in pocket (gets to the end of his drop and doesn't climb the pocket) 
  • Accuracy suffers under even a little pressure

He would really benefit from another year at the college level but he has a lot of tools to really like.

 

I'm not a big fan of Haskins, but while trying to be unbiased, I think NFL teams will have big question marks over why Ohio State rarely lets him throw down field.  Their passing game is extremely reliant on short passing.  Is that due to Haskins' limitations?  Or just the way the OSU offense is?

Also, I'd like to see him embrace his athleticism more.   That doesn't mean turn into a running QB, but when he has opportunities to run, he needs to take them.

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19 hours ago, grizmo78 said:

My very amateur and limited analysis of Dwayne Haskins is:

Positives:

  • Arm Strength
  • Very quick release
  • Ball placement
  • Able to thread the needle and make all the throws
  • NFL body (6'3 220lbs)

Negatives:

  • One read then check down
  • Movement in pocket (gets to the end of his drop and doesn't climb the pocket) 
  • Accuracy suffers under even a little pressure

He would really benefit from another year at the college level but he has a lot of tools to really like.

 

I hope this does not sound like selfish Buckeye homerism. Let me just get it out there - I am 61 years old and a Buckeye native. I have been cheering for the scarlet and gray my whole life. I am not a Buckeye alum, but my dad and my brother are. So you get the picture.

I think your positives and negatives are spot on. He seems to have that uncanny ability to "throw guys open" - but that is a skill that is clearly raw at this point and could be refined further. What concerns me the most is your first negative point. If the first option is not there on a play, he bails on the play to a checkdown.

That is probably due to a confidence level of a first year starter. I share your opinion, grizmo, that the best thing for the program would be Haskins staying another year. That extra year in college to mature further probably makes Dwayne the top overall pick in April of 2020.

But I won't argue with him if he chooses to leave after this year - because realistically we are talking about financial security for him and his current and future families for the rest of their lives.

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23 hours ago, grizmo78 said:

My very amateur and limited analysis of Dwayne Haskins is:

Positives:

  • Arm Strength
  • Very quick release
  • Ball placement
  • Able to thread the needle and make all the throws
  • NFL body (6'3 220lbs)

Negatives:

  • One read then check down
  • Movement in pocket (gets to the end of his drop and doesn't climb the pocket) 
  • Accuracy suffers under even a little pressure

He would really benefit from another year at the college level but he has a lot of tools to really like.

 

Agree entirely.

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On 10/8/2018 at 4:22 PM, IDOG_det said:

@BrownLeader you need to revisit Daniel Jones, ranking him 21st is criminal

Was just coming in here to get thoughts on him. 

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1 hour ago, ET80 said:

Was just coming in here to get thoughts on him. 

I'm writing a mock draft right now and have him going in the top 10 as the 2nd QB off the board. 

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Jarrett Stidham hasn't been so good this year. I doubt he goes R1 at this pace unless somebody's really sold on the guy.

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