Scoundrel Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 59 minutes ago, .Buzz said: I loved Baker last year... You must have been at the back of my train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsujin Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I think Haskins starts sometime Year One. Jake Locker and Brady Quinn were the last 2 first found QB's drafted to not start a game as rookies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 22 minutes ago, Counselor said: You must have been at the back of my train Was on his train last year in the Jaguars forum prior to us becoming a contender. Assumed we'd be in the running for a top QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Drew Lock has a cannon arm and a quick release. What's the issue with him? Accuracy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Gmen said: Drew Lock has a cannon arm and a quick release. What's the issue with him? Accuracy? The most used comp for Lock - Jay Cutler. I don't know of any better way to sum up the issues than that. Cutler tools....Cutler issues QB-skill wise. Other than the smokeshow wife and the smoking/diabetes memes. Edited January 3, 2019 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, Gmen said: Drew Lock has a cannon arm and a quick release. What's the issue with him? Accuracy? His pocket awareness and footwork is an issue at times. Has a good build and strong arm like you said but can be inconsistent and does not come off as this Blue chip QB, should have won a lot more games than he did in college. Is a great value in the 2nd round which is most likely where he will go, has a chance to be a good pro if he is given time to develop. Ryan Finley NC State Jarrett Stidham Auburn Drew Lock Missouri Clayton Thorson Northwestern All of these guys are solid prospects and in the right situation could succeed no doubt. Finley has the best poise and pocket fundamentals, also is arguably the best leader of the group. Lock has the biggest arm, Stidham is the best athlete no doubt and the best at throwing on the move and Thorson is just an all around player who can do a little of every as a QB. Finley, Stidham and Lock all have 1st round potential but not sure that happens this year will see. Finley had a great career but played pretty bad in his bowl game, Stidham had a really sub par RS JR year but played awesome in the bowl game, Drew Lock had a down year in terms of wins and overall team success I would say and Thorson was in and out of the lineup early because of injuries but team had great success but it was not always due to his play... So really none of them took that next step as a leader and a QB but they have some upside to their game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Just now, Ozzy said: His pocket awareness and footwork is an issue at times. Has a good build and strong arm like you said but can be inconsistent and does not come off as this Blue chip QB, should have won a lot more games than he did in college. Is a great value in the 2nd round which is most likely where he will go, has a chance to be a good pro if he is given time to develop. Ryan Finley NC State Jarrett Stidham Auburn Drew Lock Missouri Clayton Thorson Northwestern All of these guys are solid prospects and in the right situation could succeed no doubt. Finley has the best poise and pocket fundamentals, also is arguably the best leader of the group. Lock has the biggest arm, Stidham is the best athlete no doubt and the best at throwing on the move and Thorson is just an all around player who can do a little of every as a QB. Finley, Stidham and Lock all have 1st round potential but not sure that happens this year will see. Finley had a great career but played pretty bad in his bowl game, Stidham had a really sub par RS JR year but played awesome in the bowl game, Drew Lock had a down year in terms of wins and overall team success I would say and Thorson was in and out of the lineup early because of injuries but team had great success but it was not always due to his play... So really none of them took that next step as a leader and a QB but they have some upside to their game. Out of those 4 guys, though - the guy who will benefit the most from the Senior Bowl and shorts & t-shirt season (Combine) will be Lock. Because it's a demo of tools first & foremost. Stidham's very average toolset and Thorson still only being 14+ months from ACL surgery (takes 18+ to get full explosion back) will likely hold them back. I totally agree with your valuation in Day 2 in a vacuum for Lock, but I would be shocked if he wasn't 1 of the first 3 QB's taken (and I'm assuming Haskins declares as the #1 QB). I also agree with your concerns with him. Cutler college-version really does fit him to a T. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Broncofan said: The most used comp for Lock - Jay Cutler. I don't know of any better way to sum up the issues than that. Cutler tools....Cutler issues QB-skill wise. Other than the smokeshow wife and the smoking/diabetes memes. I do not see that at all, Jay Cutler was a competitive freak show, lead that Vandy team to new heights and some great success that year. Was a real inspiration to that team and gave them some big wins. Super athletic and had a absolutely special throwing arm. Lock has a good arm, it is not Cutler good and he is not as good on the move throwing as Cutler either. Same pocket issues arguably but Cutler was lazy in the pocket because he had such a great arm he could get away with it, not sure it is the same with Lock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Ozzy said: I do not see that at all, Jay Cutler was a competitive freak show, lead that Vandy team to new heights and some great success that year. Was a real inspiration to that team and gave them some big wins. Super athletic and had a absolutely special throwing arm. Lock has a good arm, it is not Cutler good and he is not as good on the move throwing as Cutler either. Same pocket issues arguably but Cutler was lazy in the pocket because he had such a great arm he could get away with it, not sure it is the same with Lock. Yeah, that's probably fair re: arm talent. But I really do think Lock's going to be end up being a Rd1 pick, so I like the comp given what happened to Cutler - he never lived up to the tools. Lock probably isn't as high ceiling-wise, but the positive/negative profile & risk are the most similar that I can think of. And out of this QB group, I suspect he'll show the highest ceiling (other than Haskins) tool-wise, even if it isn't Cutler-level. I forget how good Cutler's ceiling was - too many smoking / don't care memes lol. Edited January 3, 2019 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Just now, Broncofan said: Yeah, that's probably fair re: arm talent. But I really do think Lock's going to be end up being a Rd1 pick, so I like the comp given what happened to Cutler - he never lived up to the tools. Lock probably isn't as high ceiling-wise, but the positive/negative profile & risk are the most similar that I can think of. True it is a decent comparison but to me they are on two totally different levels. Jay Cutler had a super elite throwing arm, like Jeff George impressive with how he could just rocket the thing from multiple different angles regardless of where his feet were. Lock to me cannot do that so it is not a solid comparison to me. It will be interesting to see how he looks in a different setting with different plays being called and different players around him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Ozzy said: True it is a decent comparison but to me they are on two totally different levels. Jay Cutler had a super elite throwing arm, like Jeff George impressive with how he could just rocket the thing from multiple different angles regardless of where his feet were. Lock to me cannot do that so it is not a solid comparison to me. It will be interesting to see how he looks in a different setting with different plays being called and different players around him. Like I said in the edited version, I think the reason why Cutler comes to mind is out of this class, Lock's toolset will be the highest (except for Haskins, but he'll be in his own tier) - but fair to say Cutler's arm talent was special coming out of college. It's easy to forget after so many years of disappointing performances and Malboro Man gifs that ensued. Edited January 3, 2019 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Recently Scouted Lock and while Ozzy probably has a more in depth assessment than I do this is what I see. -All Arm, foot mechanics are bad -Backpedals in the face of pressure and doesn’t have a good sense for pocket timing or edge presence and therefore has poor pocket awareness -Smart with the football. If it isn’t there usually knows to get rid of the football. (When he does sense the pressure) -Not the gunslinger mentality despite the arm strength but also a negative because there is not a killer mentality. -Pretty decent athlete -Has an nfl caliber arm Locks accuracy issues stem from his footwork in my opinion. He is frustrating because he either stops foot movement (I hate dead feet in the pocket) too soon or backpedals after setting feet instead of stepping up into a throw. Might be able to get away with that in college with his arm strength but not happening in the nfl. He needs refinement and if he can get a coach to really fix the footwork he has the other tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Recently scouted Finley as well -Statue -Weak arm on outs and comebacks (balls are late or just don’t have the power) -Rythym and Timing Passer who needs to complete those slants and crossing patterns to get him going. Such a high completion percentage because of so many slants and quick designed passes to RB’s. Which shows the OC’s understanding of who he has behind center. He is the slant and crosser king. -Makes quick reads (by design), not a lot of progression reading in the offense -Stares down receivers -Not a lot of accuracy on the move, feet must be set to deliver any kind of power behind a ball -Does have a decent touch on the deep ball -One of the better back shoulder throwers I’ve scouted -Harmon bailed him out a lot -Makes some bone headed decisions in the face of pressure -Pretty good feel for the pocket -WCO QB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 There is a simple play that encapsulates every reason of why I believe Dwayne Haskins will be successful. 10:15 in the second quarter against Purdue. Haskins side steps a rusher while stepping up in the face of another rusher keeping his feet active, making a read to his second progression while delivering an accurate and perfect velocity throw to his target on a 3rd and 9 for a first while getting pummeled. I watch this play over and over. I love it. Definitely wasn’t his best game but this play shows he has the whole package. Haskins footwork is beautiful for a one year starter. Constantly stepping up, keeps feet active up until the release (even as he ***** his arm back his feet are still active). He sets his feet simultaneously with the release as if it is one fluid full body motion. It’s beautiful. When he does make some seldom errant throws it’s when he does set his feet too early and it affects the symbiotic motion of his feet to his throwing arm. When he keeps those feet active he doesn’t telegraph his passes this way and this is why his 70 percent completion percentage is going to carry over into the NFL. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedyg Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/2/2019 at 8:52 PM, Ozzy said: I do not see that at all, Jay Cutler was a competitive freak show, lead that Vandy team to new heights and some great success that year. Was a real inspiration to that team and gave them some big wins. Super athletic and had a absolutely special throwing arm. Lock has a good arm, it is not Cutler good and he is not as good on the move throwing as Cutler either. Same pocket issues arguably but Cutler was lazy in the pocket because he had such a great arm he could get away with it, not sure it is the same with Lock. Lock is Gabbert. Not as panicky as Blaine, better deep ball. But other wise similar issues with pocket awareness and footwork. Both are also "athletic", but kind of awkward runners in that they can pick up steam in a straight line, but it doesn't really show as far as making guys miss and improvising (like Mahomes, which is why I don't get that comparison) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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