2019 NFL Draft - Quarterbacks

[Da_Ducktator]

On 5/25/2018 at 7:28 PM, Ozzy said:

Really, well I do not follow college baseball so I have no clue how good he is.  Surprised someone actually pays attention to college baseball.  Anyway Russell Wilson what played for the Colorado Rockies minor league system for two years.  I know at NC State many thought he would instantly pick baseball because of his size as a QB and many thought he had a better future as a baseball player.  Obviously things turned out differently, Murray however can not throw like Russell Wilson could in college so if he does pick baseball over football it is because he really does not have much of a future in football especially at QB.  I honestly view Murray as a position change prospect to possibly a WR or RB.  He has yet to show NFL arm potential but was interested to see how he did this up coming year.  He has great quickness and ability to make players miss in the open field, fine athlete but as a thrower he is nothing great at all.

I would be surprised if he did not play football this season, especially after waiting so long for his chance.  If he did not want to play football then why transfer to Oklahoma like he did and wait behind Mayfield.  Why not just finish out your college career in baseball and go play pro baseball and start that process.

 

Mike Vick was what the 30th pick in the 2000 MLB draft and he did not play baseball since the 8th grade.  So clearly the baseball draft is not like the football draft in terms of rankings and who gets drafted where.  Will be interesting to see what happens with Murray.

It's not so much I follow college baseball, but I have worked at the D1 level in baseball as well, I am an MLB fan, and I knew that regular season was coming to an end and MLB Draft talk was picking up so I looked into things and saw Kyler Murray has been great this year and re-cemented himself as a top MLB Draft prospect.

Again, I had heard back in when he was a recruit that Kyler does love football, but if it wasn't for the injury that limited to only a DH, he could have possibly been a 1st round pick and never gone to college whatsoever. He was considered the best athlete in that draft class and I imagine he would still be near the top in this year's class.

And sure, it makes sense to say "why did he go to Oklahoma to sit" if he wasn't going to play football when looking at it strictly like that. But you're not draft eligible again after high school if you decide to go college until you have been out of high school for at least three years (like in the NFL), so if he was looking with a mindset of baseball in the end anyways, it doesn't really matter where he chose from a football perspective. If anything, sitting was probably for the best because it let him put extra work into baseball (do you think the Sooners coaching staff would have been happy if Murray was their starter and went and played summer baseball as he did? He was afforded that luxury because of Baker being firmly in position to start) and now he is looking at a high draft slot and likely a multi-million signing bonus. 

[Ozzy]

5 hours ago, Da_Ducktator said:

It's not so much I follow college baseball, but I have worked at the D1 level in baseball as well, I am an MLB fan, and I knew that regular season was coming to an end and MLB Draft talk was picking up so I looked into things and saw Kyler Murray has been great this year and re-cemented himself as a top MLB Draft prospect.

Again, I had heard back in when he was a recruit that Kyler does love football, but if it wasn't for the injury that limited to only a DH, he could have possibly been a 1st round pick and never gone to college whatsoever. He was considered the best athlete in that draft class and I imagine he would still be near the top in this year's class.

And sure, it makes sense to say "why did he go to Oklahoma to sit" if he wasn't going to play football when looking at it strictly like that. But you're not draft eligible again after high school if you decide to go college until you have been out of high school for at least three years (like in the NFL), so if he was looking with a mindset of baseball in the end anyways, it doesn't really matter where he chose from a football perspective. If anything, sitting was probably for the best because it let him put extra work into baseball (do you think the Sooners coaching staff would have been happy if Murray was their starter and went and played summer baseball as he did? He was afforded that luxury because of Baker being firmly in position to start) and now he is looking at a high draft slot and likely a multi-million signing bonus. 

Yeah I do not follow college baseball or baseball in general for that matter so it is interesting stuff.  Then again the discussion is worthless in a way because Kyler is not a NFL QB prospect thus is not really a prospect, could be an ok WR maybe but that is a stretch.   

 

So it all depends on the MLB draft which is in early June I see if he plays for Oklahoma?  So if he gets picked high then he is going to go play baseball because of the signing bonus situation?  That will be interesting, kid has waited awhile for his shot to start with football and would be the man for OU this year.  Is playing QB for Oklahoma more fun than playing minor league baseball in some no name town, I would say ummm yeah it is.  Will be interesting, see what happens in early June, sure Kyler is no great NFL prospect but could be a damn exciting player in college football no question.  

[Da_Ducktator]

14 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Yeah I do not follow college baseball or baseball in general for that matter so it is interesting stuff.  Then again the discussion is worthless in a way because Kyler is not a NFL QB prospect thus is not really a prospect, could be an ok WR maybe but that is a stretch.   

 

So it all depends on the MLB draft which is in early June I see if he plays for Oklahoma?  So if he gets picked high then he is going to go play baseball because of the signing bonus situation?  That will be interesting, kid has waited awhile for his shot to start with football and would be the man for OU this year.  Is playing QB for Oklahoma more fun than playing minor league baseball in some no name town, I would say ummm yeah it is.  Will be interesting, see what happens in early June, sure Kyler is no great NFL prospect but could be a damn exciting player in college football no question.  

Playing QB is certainly more exciting than strictly being a minor leaguer, but a minor leaguer with a multi-million signing bonus and then a regular salary on top of that has its perks.

[Ozzy]

On 5/30/2018 at 8:41 AM, Da_Ducktator said:

Playing QB is certainly more exciting than strictly being a minor leaguer, but a minor leaguer with a multi-million signing bonus and then a regular salary on top of that has its perks.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/23663681/oklahoma-sooners-coach-lincoln-riley-expects-qb-kyler-murray-play-regardless-mlb-draft

 

Looks like at least in terms of the head coaches opinion, there was an "understanding" for him to at least play QB for OU this season.  Will see if that happens.  Again could come down to where he gets drafted and that signing bonus situation.   For example Drew Henson who was a lot better QB prospect than Murray is, he was selected third round 97th overall in 1998 MLB draft, then signed a 6 year deal for $17 million to not play in the NFL and play for the Yankees.  Obviously that never worked out, went back to football in the NFL and that also did not work out.  So yeah just because a baseball player gets drafted or even gets paid a lot of money up front does not mean he can play in the big leagues.  Murray I feel should at least play this year then play out in college football, his baseball dreams can wait and if he is that good the money will come.

 

 

[Da_Ducktator]

13 hours ago, Ozzy said:

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/23663681/oklahoma-sooners-coach-lincoln-riley-expects-qb-kyler-murray-play-regardless-mlb-draft

 

Looks like at least in terms of the head coaches opinion, there was an "understanding" for him to at least play QB for OU this season.  Will see if that happens.  Again could come down to where he gets drafted and that signing bonus situation.   For example Drew Henson who was a lot better QB prospect than Murray is, he was selected third round 97th overall in 1998 MLB draft, then signed a 6 year deal for $17 million to not play in the NFL and play for the Yankees.  Obviously that never worked out, went back to football in the NFL and that also did not work out.  So yeah just because a baseball player gets drafted or even gets paid a lot of money up front does not mean he can play in the big leagues.  Murray I feel should at least play this year then play out in college football, his baseball dreams can wait and if he is that good the money will come.

That's the problem though; they likely won't. If he gets drafted high and refuses to sign, he would be taking a monumental risk to pass up multi-million days as a soon to be 21-year old. If he holds out for another draft class and his play dips at all, baseball is going to basically blacklist the guy.

Henson was a unique case. The Yankees, who were in the midst of their wild string of success with the 'Core Four' and flush with money, we're okay with Henson going to college and playing D1 football while only playing pro ball over the summer. They took him out of high school with that contract and more money to come if went only to baseball after he was done playing college football, as he did.

Right now, Murray is an attractive prospect because he is still young and toolsy. MLB teams want to get him in their organization now to develop him. He has little to no future in football. The odds of him ever making the kind of money in football he is going to receive strictly off his signing bonus is slim to none. If he gets drafted in the top two rounds, receives a multi-million offer to sign, he HAS to take it. Anybody with half a brain is going to advise of him of that and hopefully he realizes that.

[Scout]

After more study Herbert QB1. Thorson is close. Stidham has a chance 

[Da_Ducktator]

So, consider me absolutely floored that the A's, or Scott Boras, is letting this go down. The slot value for where Kyler Murray got drafted (which he ended up going 9th off the board after whispers this weekend he could crack top 10) is $4.7 million. Have to wonder if Kyler is cutting a deal with them so the A's can save some money and allow him to play baseball (Murray & Boras' target was reportedly $3 mil).

[Ozzy]

2 hours ago, Da_Ducktator said:

So, consider me absolutely floored that the A's, or Scott Boras, is letting this go down. The slot value for where Kyler Murray got drafted (which he ended up going 9th off the board after whispers this weekend he could crack top 10) is $4.7 million. Have to wonder if Kyler is cutting a deal with them so the A's can save some money and allow him to play baseball (Murray & Boras' target was reportedly $3 mil).

I say good for him and what the A's would have to wait 7 or 8 months for him to join whatever Minor league setting they have after football?  I say great, and if Murray loses a 1.7 Million dollars out of that deal, so what if he is really that good at baseball.  Only reason those 7-8 months and the pay matter is if he sucks totally at baseball and has no future what so ever and will not get another contract opportunity.  Sure hope that is not the case for the 9th overall pick.  

[YogiBiz]

22 hours ago, Ozzy said:

I say good for him and what the A's would have to wait 7 or 8 months for him to join whatever Minor league setting they have after football?  I say great, and if Murray loses a 1.7 Million dollars out of that deal, so what if he is really that good at baseball.  Only reason those 7-8 months and the pay matter is if he sucks totally at baseball and has no future what so ever and will not get another contract opportunity.  Sure hope that is not the case for the 9th overall pick.  

TBH I think the only reason he fell to #9 is his commitment to play football this year. He was really top 2 in this years draft in terms of talent. 

[Da_Ducktator]

1 hour ago, YogiBiz said:

TBH I think the only reason he fell to #9 is his commitment to play football this year. He was really top 2 in this years draft in terms of talent. 

Top 2? Kyler has tons of tools, but he struggled in 2017 and in the Cape Cod League over the summer, and while he improved big time this year, he still strikes out roughly 30% of the time whereas you have a guy like Nick Madrigal who struck out only five times so far this year on 133 AB's (missed some time with injury). 

If Murray doesn't improve his plate discipline, he is just going to be another Austin Jackson. Not exactly the return you're hoping for at 9th overall..

[YogiBiz]

21 hours ago, Da_Ducktator said:

Top 2? Kyler has tons of tools, but he struggled in 2017 and in the Cape Cod League over the summer, and while he improved big time this year, he still strikes out roughly 30% of the time whereas you have a guy like Nick Madrigal who struck out only five times so far this year on 133 AB's (missed some time with injury). 

If Murray doesn't improve his plate discipline, he is just going to be another Austin Jackson. Not exactly the return you're hoping for at 9th overall..

Okay but that doesn't forgo his tremendous upside, rocket arm, great speed, good fielding instincts, he swings for power a ton. This is technically his first season of playing baseball since 2014 (and he's still playing part time), and you saw the enormous improvement yourself. He is a really good player right now, just imagine when he will be able to put all of his time to improve himself in baseball. 

[smokeybandit]

On 5/8/2018 at 6:00 PM, SteelKing728 said:

Trace McSorley?

LOL

No Barkley, Gesicki or Hamilton. That team will take a major step back and McSorley will be an afterthought.

Right, because no team has ever lost players and been able to replace them next year.

[SteelKing728]

18 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

Right, because no team has ever lost players and been able to replace them next year.

It's hard to replace top talent all leaving at once.

[Ozzy]

5 hours ago, SteelKing728 said:

It's hard to replace top talent all leaving at once.

I agree, they do got Juwan Johnson and Thompkins who are both very good receivers, and Polk has potential. Miles Sanders is an ok RB but will never be at Barkley's level in his lifetime.  Some ok linemen but yes they are losing a ton of talent no doubt and not sure McSorley is good enough to make they look good who they have now.  If anything was the other way around with the likes of Barkley, Gesicki and Hamilton made McSorley look good.    

[BleedTheClock]

On 6/9/2018 at 8:32 AM, smokeybandit said:

Right, because no team has ever lost players and been able to replace them next year.

Except Trace McSorley sucks. Even with all the talent he had in the past