Scoundrel Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 My top four of the last two years would look like this..: 1. Mayfield 2. Haskins 3. Darnold 4. Murray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Danger said: I honestly didn't even know Mahomes existed until his name was called on stage LOL His arm was so generational, and the talent was there - and unlike so many others, Mahomes admitted his flaws straight up even in draft season. Obviously I had no idea he would be this great, but out of all the 2017 draft class, I thought he had the elite ceiling, but the bust floor. I just didn't see the elite ceiling, and the floor wasn't a lot higher with Watson/Trubisky. I really undersold Watson's intangibles, thought he was going to be the college elite / OK NFL product because the tools were so borderline (but if there are 2 intangibles that can play up borderline NFL level raw skills, it's anticipation and pocket awareness, his accuracy and placement were never an issue). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyRx Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Is there such a thing as "reaching" for a QB? I mean, if he's good and is your franchise QB for 10+ years, was it reaching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, MightyRx said: Is there such a thing as "reaching" for a QB? I mean, if he's good and is your franchise QB for 10+ years, was it reaching? It's reaching if you end up drafting Blake Bortles or Blaine Gabbert. If you get a franchise QB that's your 10-year starter, it's never a miss. But the miss is the problem. Especially since teams rarely cut bait on 1st round picks for at least 3 offseasons. So it's a team sentence to 3+ years of purgatory, and missed opportunities. I mean, Paxton Lynch 2016. Enough said. Consider this - KC and DAL both tried to trade up for Lynch. Imagine if KC gets Lynch. For sure Mahomes ends up somewhere else. Not on KC. So yeah, reaching for a QB is real, and the impact if it happens is huge. Edited April 25, 2019 by Broncofan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Broncofan said: It's reaching if you end up drafting Blake Bortles or Blaine Gabbert. If you get a franchise QB that's your 10-year starter, it's never a miss. But the miss is the problem. Especially since teams rarely cut bait on 1st round picks for at least 3 offseasons. So it's a team sentence to 3+ years of purgatory, and missed opportunities. I mean, Paxton Lynch 2016. Enough said. Consider this - KC and DAL both tried to trade up for Lynch. Imagine if KC gets Lynch. For sure Mahomes ends up somewhere else. Not on KC. So yeah, reaching for a QB is real, and the impact if it happens is huge. To be fair, Blake Bortles certainly looked every bit the part of NFL QB on tape and in person. Dating back to 2013, prospects that seemed reached on at the time to me 2013: EJ Manuel 2014: Johnny Manziel 2017: Mitch Trubisky, DeShaun Watson (I knew nothing of Mahomes) 2018: Josh Allen, LaMar Jackson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Danger said: To be fair, Blake Bortles certainly looked every bit the part of NFL QB on tape and in person. Dating back to 2013, prospects that seemed reached on at the time to me 2013: EJ Manuel 2014: Johnny Manziel 2017: Mitch Trubisky, DeShaun Watson (I knew nothing of Mahomes) 2018: Josh Allen, LaMar Jackson Jackson wasn't as much of a reach, just knew he was going to need time. Allen terrified and intrigued me (still does). The problem with Bortles was that accuracy was his big weakness. That's the scary one, since it often doesn't fix if it's still there, and it's not a simple mechanical tweak. He's exactly the type of guy that Elway falls in love with - but at least, his tools were elite across the board. His skills were sushi raw, though, and that's always risky (to be fair, so was Mahomes, but Mahomes' recognition and awareness stood out to me - and knowing Andy Reid was going to develop him, that meant a lot - like with PIT targeting WR's, the positive predicitive value is just off the charts good). To complete that list, Lynch was a huuuuge reach. Many of us in DEN's forum called it. Most knew it was a 2-year developmental cycle best-case. It really was a 3-year purgatory sentence for us. Why so many of us are terrified if Lock's the pick. At least with Haskins, he shows the NFL-ready skills. HUGE difference IMO. Edited April 25, 2019 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Broncofan said: The problem with Bortles was that accuracy was his big weakness. That's the scary one, since it often doesn't fix if it's still there, and it's not a simple mechanical tweak. Must disagree. His accuracy wasn't bad for a draft prospect, and it seemed fixable if you could clean up his lower body mechanics. Unfortunately, nobody has ever gotten his lower body mechanics to stick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Must disagree. His accuracy wasn't bad for a draft prospect, and it seemed fixable if you could clean up his lower body mechanics. Unfortunately, nobody has ever gotten his lower body mechanics to stick. That was the thinking for sure. It just happened that it was a more ingrained problem. To be clear, I'm not saying it was an obvious bust pick at the time - but the risk was there, since accuracy was a flag. That's the biggest flag around, other than total lack of NFL-level talent. I won't pretend I saw this level of inaccuracy, the CW was that it was going to be fixable with simple tweaks. It wasn't. Fast-forward this to Lock - his problems are so ingrained after 3-4 years of play, and a flat learning curve, if someone can fix the mechanics, it would help a lot (but then doesn't do much for his wilting vs. pressure and good D's). It's just unlike Bortles, there's no simple path to fixing his issues. And the Mahomes-lite ceiling comps are ridonkulous. Even Cutler is a bit of a stretch, Cutler's arm ceiling was still way better than Lock's IMO. Edited April 25, 2019 by Broncofan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Broncofan said: That was the thinking for sure. It just happened that it was a more ingrained problem. To be clear, I'm not saying it was an obvious bust pick at the time - but the risk was there, since accuracy was a flag. That's the biggest flag around, other than total lack of NFL-level talent. I won't pretend I saw this level of inaccuracy, the CW was that it was going to be fixable with simple tweaks. It wasn't. That's the nature of the risk with QBs. Sometimes, you take that risk and end up with a Blake Bortles or Jake Locker. Sometimes, you end up with a Patrick Mahomes or Carson Wentz. You just have to make a judgment call. Edited April 25, 2019 by jrry32 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, jrry32 said: That's the nature of the risk with QBs. Sometimes, you take that risk and end up with a Blake Bortles or Jake Locker. Sometimes, you end up with a Patrick Mahomes or Carson Wentz. As much as we try and dissect it, can't argue the premise. It's just with some, you can see a clear path to fixing the issues...others, the path looks like a walk through 7 Mile without a car and no phone/weapons. It also matters a ton who's trying to fix the problem. Andy Reid, Sean McVay or Doug Pederson want to give it a shot? I'll buy (and even to a lesser extent, guys like Gase for pure QB fixes, I feel OK about). Mike McCoy or Gary Kubiak? Umm, pass. Edited April 25, 2019 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 I want this on record so I’ll say it again, Ryan Finley will be the 2nd best QB of the class. Best Accuracy - Check Decent Mobility - Check Best Touch - Check 2nd best release to Kyler - Check Smartest QB who understands every coverage and is the most pro ready - Check. His arm is underrated and can get stronger just like Bradys did. It’s called the weight room. Can’t wait to see how this QB class performs. I think Murray will be great, Haskins will be average and in the 14-18 range, Drew Lock 100% bust, Daniel Jones will stay in the league as an excellent backup and spot starter. Could have a solid year starting here and there. I don’t see much from him though. Will Grier I think will be the 3rd best QB of the class behind Kyler and Finley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, BayRaider said: I want this on record so I’ll say it again, Ryan Finley will be the 2nd best QB of the class. Best Accuracy - Check Decent Mobility - Check Best Touch - Check 2nd best release to Kyler - Check Smartest QB who understands every coverage and is the most pro ready - Check. His arm is underrated and can get stronger just like Bradys did. It’s called the weight room. Can’t wait to see how this QB class performs. I think Murray will be great, Haskins will be average and in the 14-18 range, Drew Lock 100% bust, Daniel Jones will stay in the league as an excellent backup and spot starter. Could have a solid year starting here and there. I don’t see much from him though. Will Grier I think will be the 3rd best QB of the class behind Kyler and Finley. Honestly don't know what to make of Finley, by far the most genuinely polarizing QB prospect I've seen in years outside of the likely 1st round guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, BayRaider said: I want this on record so I’ll say it again, Ryan Finley will be the 2nd best QB of the class. Best Accuracy - Check Decent Mobility - Check Best Touch - Check 2nd best release to Kyler - Check Smartest QB who understands every coverage and is the most pro ready - Check. His arm is underrated and can get stronger just like Bradys did. It’s called the weight room. Can’t wait to see how this QB class performs. I think Murray will be great, Haskins will be average and in the 14-18 range, Drew Lock 100% bust, Daniel Jones will stay in the league as an excellent backup and spot starter. Could have a solid year starting here and there. I don’t see much from him though. Will Grier I think will be the 3rd best QB of the class behind Kyler and Finley. I'm not sure. I view him as a 3rd developmental prospect with a high floor and eventual starter potential. Grier to me is the sleeper. I think he could justify a late 1st round selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 minute ago, SBLIII said: I'm not sure. I view him as a 3rd developmental prospect with a high floor and eventual starter potential. Grier to me is the sleeper. I think he could justify a late 1st round selection. Really think the Pats go Grier or Finley at 32. I have them selecting Finley at 32 in my final mock because Denver trades up to 31 and grabs Grier. A lot of people think they will go QB in the 2nd or 3rd but I don’t think any QB Prospect with starter material will last that long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Just now, BayRaider said: Really think the Pats go Grier or Finley at 32. I have them selecting Finley at 32 in my final mock because Denver trades up to 31 and grabs Grier. A lot of people think they will go QB in the 2nd or 3rd but I don’t think any QB Prospect with starter material will last that long. I've had this super strong feeling that they want Winovich. IDK why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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