Jump to content

2019 NFL Draft - Quarterbacks


AlNFL19

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Danger said:

I honestly didn't even know Mahomes existed until his name was called on stage LOL

His arm was so generational, and the talent was there - and unlike so many others, Mahomes admitted his flaws straight up even in draft season.    Obviously I had no idea he would be this great, but out of all the 2017 draft class, I thought he had the elite ceiling, but the bust floor.  I just didn't see the elite ceiling, and the floor wasn't a lot higher with Watson/Trubisky. I really undersold Watson's intangibles, thought he was going to be the college elite / OK NFL product because the tools were so borderline (but if there are 2 intangibles that can play up borderline NFL level raw skills, it's anticipation and pocket awareness, his accuracy and placement were never an issue).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, MightyRx said:

Is there such a thing as "reaching" for a QB? I mean, if he's good and is your franchise QB for 10+ years, was it reaching?

It's reaching if you end up drafting Blake Bortles or Blaine Gabbert.

If you get a franchise QB that's your 10-year starter, it's never a miss.  But the miss is the problem.  Especially since teams rarely cut bait on 1st round picks for at least 3 offseasons.   So it's a team sentence to 3+ years of purgatory, and missed opportunities.  I mean, Paxton Lynch 2016.  Enough said.

Consider this - KC and DAL both tried to trade up for Lynch.  Imagine if KC gets Lynch.    For sure Mahomes ends up somewhere else.  Not on KC.  So yeah, reaching for a QB is real, and the impact if it happens is huge.

Edited by Broncofan
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

It's reaching if you end up drafting Blake Bortles or Blaine Gabbert.

If you get a franchise QB that's your 10-year starter, it's never a miss.  But the miss is the problem.  Especially since teams rarely cut bait on 1st round picks for at least 3 offseasons.   So it's a team sentence to 3+ years of purgatory, and missed opportunities.  I mean, Paxton Lynch 2016.  Enough said.

Consider this - KC and DAL both tried to trade up for Lynch.  Imagine if KC gets Lynch.    For sure Mahomes ends up somewhere else.  Not on KC.  So yeah, reaching for a QB is real, and the impact if it happens is huge.

To be fair, Blake Bortles certainly looked every bit the part of NFL QB on tape and in person. 

Dating back to 2013, prospects that seemed reached on at the time to me

2013: EJ Manuel
2014: Johnny Manziel
2017: Mitch Trubisky, DeShaun Watson (I knew nothing of Mahomes)
2018: Josh Allen, LaMar Jackson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Danger said:

To be fair, Blake Bortles certainly looked every bit the part of NFL QB on tape and in person. 

Dating back to 2013, prospects that seemed reached on at the time to me

2013: EJ Manuel
2014: Johnny Manziel
2017: Mitch Trubisky, DeShaun Watson (I knew nothing of Mahomes)
2018: Josh Allen, LaMar Jackson

Jackson wasn't as much of a reach, just knew he was going to need time.  Allen terrified and intrigued me (still does).   

The problem with Bortles was that accuracy was his big weakness.  That's the scary one, since it often doesn't fix if it's still there, and it's not a simple mechanical tweak.   He's exactly the type of guy that Elway falls in love with - but at least, his tools were elite across the board.  His skills were sushi raw, though, and that's always risky (to be fair, so was Mahomes, but Mahomes' recognition and awareness stood out to me - and knowing Andy Reid was going to develop him, that meant a lot - like with PIT targeting WR's, the positive predicitive value is just off the charts good).

To complete that list, Lynch was a huuuuge reach.  Many of us in DEN's forum called it.  Most knew it was a 2-year developmental cycle best-case.   It really was a 3-year purgatory sentence for us.  Why so many of us are terrified if Lock's the pick.  At least with Haskins, he shows the NFL-ready skills.  HUGE difference IMO.

Edited by Broncofan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Broncofan said:

The problem with Bortles was that accuracy was his big weakness.  That's the scary one, since it often doesn't fix if it's still there, and it's not a simple mechanical tweak. 

Must disagree. His accuracy wasn't bad for a draft prospect, and it seemed fixable if you could clean up his lower body mechanics. Unfortunately, nobody has ever gotten his lower body mechanics to stick.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Must disagree. His accuracy wasn't bad for a draft prospect, and it seemed fixable if you could clean up his lower body mechanics. Unfortunately, nobody has ever gotten his lower body mechanics to stick.

That was the thinking for sure.  It just happened that it was a more ingrained problem.

To be clear, I'm not saying it was an obvious bust pick at the time - but the risk was there, since accuracy was a flag.  That's the biggest flag around, other than total lack of NFL-level talent.  I won't pretend I saw this level of inaccuracy, the CW was that it was going to be fixable with simple tweaks.  It wasn't.   

Fast-forward this to Lock - his problems are so ingrained after 3-4 years of play, and a flat learning curve, if someone can fix the mechanics,  it would help a lot (but then doesn't do much for his wilting vs. pressure and good D's).  It's just unlike Bortles, there's no simple path to fixing his issues.  And the Mahomes-lite ceiling comps are ridonkulous.  Even Cutler is a bit of a stretch, Cutler's arm ceiling was still way better than Lock's IMO. 

Edited by Broncofan
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

That was the thinking for sure.  It just happened that it was a more ingrained problem.

To be clear, I'm not saying it was an obvious bust pick at the time - but the risk was there, since accuracy was a flag.  That's the biggest flag around, other than total lack of NFL-level talent.  I won't pretend I saw this level of inaccuracy, the CW was that it was going to be fixable with simple tweaks.  It wasn't.

That's the nature of the risk with QBs. Sometimes, you take that risk and end up with a Blake Bortles or Jake Locker. Sometimes, you end up with a Patrick Mahomes or Carson Wentz. You just have to make a judgment call.

Edited by jrry32
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

That's the nature of the risk with QBs. Sometimes, you take that risk and end up with a Blake Bortles or Jake Locker. Sometimes, you end up with a Patrick Mahomes or Carson Wentz.

As much as we try and dissect it, can't argue the premise.   It's just with some, you can see a clear path to fixing the issues...others, the path looks like a walk through 7 Mile without a car and no phone/weapons. 

It also matters a ton who's trying to fix the problem.  Andy Reid, Sean McVay or Doug Pederson want to give it a shot?  I'll buy (and even to a lesser extent, guys like Gase for pure QB fixes, I feel OK about).   Mike McCoy or Gary Kubiak?  Umm, pass.

Edited by Broncofan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I want this on record so I’ll say it again, Ryan Finley will be the 2nd best QB of the class. 

Best Accuracy - Check

Decent Mobility - Check

Best Touch - Check

2nd best release to Kyler - Check

Smartest QB who understands every coverage and is the most pro ready - Check. 

His arm is underrated and can get stronger just like Bradys did. It’s called the weight room. 

Can’t wait to see how this QB class performs. I think Murray will be great, Haskins will be average and in the 14-18 range, Drew Lock 100% bust, Daniel Jones will stay in the league as an excellent backup and spot starter. Could have a solid year starting here and there. I don’t see much from him though. Will Grier I think will be the 3rd best QB of the class behind Kyler and Finley. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

I want this on record so I’ll say it again, Ryan Finley will be the 2nd best QB of the class. 

Best Accuracy - Check

Decent Mobility - Check

Best Touch - Check

2nd best release to Kyler - Check

Smartest QB who understands every coverage and is the most pro ready - Check. 

His arm is underrated and can get stronger just like Bradys did. It’s called the weight room. 

Can’t wait to see how this QB class performs. I think Murray will be great, Haskins will be average and in the 14-18 range, Drew Lock 100% bust, Daniel Jones will stay in the league as an excellent backup and spot starter. Could have a solid year starting here and there. I don’t see much from him though. Will Grier I think will be the 3rd best QB of the class behind Kyler and Finley. 

Honestly don't know what to make of Finley, by far the most genuinely polarizing QB prospect I've seen in years outside of the likely 1st round guys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

I want this on record so I’ll say it again, Ryan Finley will be the 2nd best QB of the class. 

Best Accuracy - Check

Decent Mobility - Check

Best Touch - Check

2nd best release to Kyler - Check

Smartest QB who understands every coverage and is the most pro ready - Check. 

His arm is underrated and can get stronger just like Bradys did. It’s called the weight room. 

Can’t wait to see how this QB class performs. I think Murray will be great, Haskins will be average and in the 14-18 range, Drew Lock 100% bust, Daniel Jones will stay in the league as an excellent backup and spot starter. Could have a solid year starting here and there. I don’t see much from him though. Will Grier I think will be the 3rd best QB of the class behind Kyler and Finley. 

I'm not sure. I view him as a 3rd developmental prospect with a high floor and eventual starter potential. Grier to me is the sleeper. I think he could justify a late 1st round selection.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, SBLIII said:

I'm not sure. I view him as a 3rd developmental prospect with a high floor and eventual starter potential. Grier to me is the sleeper. I think he could justify a late 1st round selection.

Really think the Pats go Grier or Finley at 32. I have them selecting Finley at 32 in my final mock because Denver trades up to 31 and grabs Grier. 

A lot of people think they will go QB in the 2nd or 3rd but I don’t think any QB Prospect with starter material will last that long. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, BayRaider said:

Really think the Pats go Grier or Finley at 32. I have them selecting Finley at 32 in my final mock because Denver trades up to 31 and grabs Grier. 

A lot of people think they will go QB in the 2nd or 3rd but I don’t think any QB Prospect with starter material will last that long. 

I've had this super strong feeling that they want Winovich. IDK why.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...