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DeShone Kizer


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16 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said:

You guys know any edge guys that might get cut post June 1 by chance. Anyone?

Can we clear something up real quick, there's no magical June 1 cut deadline.  It's a designation.  You can cut someone in April and designate them as a June 1 cut.  It's not some magical deadline when players can get cut.  That being said, not that I know off the top of my head.  Quality EDGE don't come available very often.

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10 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Can we clear something up real quick, there's no magical June 1 cut deadline.  It's a designation.  You can cut someone in April and designate them as a June 1 cut.  It's not some magical deadline when players can get cut.  That being said, not that I know off the top of my head.  Quality EDGE don't come available very often.

Yeah but can't you only designate one before? And you can go hog wild after? But yeah thanks for that. I guess just who might be a casualty as we go through the off season

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15 minutes ago, Patriotplayer90 said:

You can sign any run of the mill TE or ILB for an inconsequential effect on the cap, and they would be improvements over Nate Palmer and Richard Rodgers.  What I'm talking about is signing guys like Jahri Evans and Ahmad Brooks , not shelling out $15M per year on players.  

We've signed guys like that though. They aren't all Evans. They tend to be a Brooks. They aren't season changers most of the time. So over you've signed 6 of them to get the one good one you blew 8 million or whatever anyways.

It's not near as successful as you believe it is imo.

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1 minute ago, NormSizedMidget said:

Yeah but can't you only designate one before? And you can go hog wild after? But yeah thanks for that. I guess just who might be a casualty as we go through the off season

I don't believe there's a limitation on how many times you can designate a player as a June 1 cut.

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3 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said:

Well today I learned.. Thanks

Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine when people are convinced that teams are going to release a bunch of talented players.

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/football/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=&Team=&BeginDate=2017-06-01&EndDate=2017-06-07&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&submit=Search

That's from 6/1/18 until 6/7/18, how many of those players who were release make an impact on the 2017 Packers?  I think the only one you might be able to make an argument for is Jeremy Maclin.

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3 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said:

We've signed guys like that though. They aren't all Evans. They tend to be a Brooks. They aren't season changers most of the time. So over you've signed 6 of them to get the one good one you blew 8 million or whatever anyways.

It's not near as successful as you believe it is imo.

$8M on 6 guys who have proven to play at an acceptable level is perfectly fine.  Cook was one of those guys, and we saw how much of an upgrade he was, despite not being a great player.

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7 minutes ago, Patriotplayer90 said:

$8M on 6 guys who have proven to play at an acceptable level is perfectly fine.  Cook was one of those guys, and we saw how much of an upgrade he was, despite not being a great player.

So I started to edit my post but I will reply to this. Using the Jahri line last year, 2.25 per, this is who signed in 2017

2ef58f9508d73cfe9f21fde3fffc9fb8.png

8ba0c25242fb927e507eff2bf168d3b5.png

This gives us some actual frame of reference. How many of those guys had any impact on their teams actual success? How much money was spent there on low level players compared to the actual production out of all of them...I don't think it's as good as it seems when you look at the whole picture.

Evans, Adams, Tramon. Those are the three that stand out. I don't know as much as I once did so I'm sure i missed some other productive guys. I know Mills was a starter.

EDIT. Missed Keenum, derp

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6 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine when people are convinced that teams are going to release a bunch of talented players.

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/football/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=&Team=&BeginDate=2017-06-01&EndDate=2017-06-07&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&submit=Search

That's from 6/1/18 until 6/7/18, how many of those players who were release make an impact on the 2017 Packers?  I think the only one you might be able to make an argument for is Jeremy Maclin.

Oh I'm totally with you. I'm just trying to be open to possibilities I suppose.

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4 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said:

So I started to edit my post but I will reply to this. Using the Jahri line last year, 2.25 per, this is who signed in 2017

2ef58f9508d73cfe9f21fde3fffc9fb8.png

8ba0c25242fb927e507eff2bf168d3b5.png

This gives us some actual frame of reference. How many of those guys had any impact on their teams actual success? How much money was spent there on low level players compared to the actual production out of all of them...I don't think it's as good as it seems when you look at the whole picture.

If your argument is that $2M guys don't make a huge impact, I'm sure everyone will agree with you.  You basically just get decent depth guys at that cost, ones who can do a decent job when called upon.  Several of those guys did just that.  It's just a shame that TT didn't address TE or ILB in such a way in 2014 when the roster was actually good.

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8 minutes ago, Patriotplayer90 said:

If your argument is that $2M guys don't make a huge impact, I'm sure everyone will agree with you.  You basically just get decent depth guys at that cost, ones who can do a decent job when called upon.  Several of those guys did just that.  It's just a shame that TT didn't address TE or ILB in such a way in 2014 when the roster was actually good.

But it feels like, to me, and maybe this isn't really directed at you, that often it's talked like if we just get 2.5 mil to vet min guys for competition, that will set us up and cure the ills of depth and put us over the top. That's the implication of it. Several of those guys helped, sure. But there's 50 guys there (49 I think). So it's kinda like I'm saying. You'd hope we could beat those odds that it's more than 1/5, or whatever we say it is that become useful. But odds tell you, you spend probably much money than the 2 mil on one guy to find the hits. So now you're spending, let's say 6 mil conservatively, to get one helpful player. I guess that's fine, but when you hear the names called out it's always "look at all these cheap guys that helped." Nobody ever lists the others that did squat. I'm just throwing out the pros and cons here. It seems like a no brainer to sign these guys, and they have no repercussions because they're so cheap. Well not one guy on his own, but one guy on his own is a relatively low percentage to actually help. Odds start to tell you need to get multiple (maybe over years not all at once) to find them. But you even stated it's okay to get "proven players" at that price point even if you have to sign 3 at once. But truth is, they aren't really proven, and if they are, it was mostly in their past and their skills are diminishing. Low end FA is just as risky as high end, it's just we see it as one cheap guy at a time so it can't hurt us. Sure it can. Not one player at a time but it can sink just as much money over time because they don't hit often and you need to keep taking swings to find guys who can. That's my take.

Hell, 4 of those guys were ours when we signed them. Only 1 did anything for us. 1/4. Jayrone didn't have money (or much, I'm not going to check) on the books and I don't remember what all happened with RJF's money, but still. I think that somewhat illustrates my point even looking just at our team. You're throwing up 6-8 mil of salary on the books at one point to get one helpful player. Evans was a decent starter but he isn't changing the season for us either.

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52 minutes ago, Jaegybomb said:

It's not like he had 0 value.

He's still a free agent and I'm guessing one that won't play for the vet minimum. Which is his value, IMO, so I personally don't see it. 

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On 5/6/2018 at 8:38 PM, NormSizedMidget said:

He said "and what equaled roughly to a high 5th round pick. " How did he ignore the trade up part?

That's an awful comp.... Moving up from the middle of round 4 to the to first pick of round 4, and more importantly, the first pick of day three... The move up in round 5 was ignored.

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