Kiwibrown Posted May 13, 2018 Author Share Posted May 13, 2018 21 minutes ago, LaserFocus said: Alexander had two 100 yard days in nine postseason games, the postseason won't help him in the HOF discussion. Terrell Davis is arguably the best postseason back ever, and that did augment his case. If we lower the bar for Alexander, that means Priest Holmes, and others should get in as well. Don't think it's going to happen with strong candidates on the ballot who also have SB rings. Primarily the reason I see Alexander deserving of the Hall is due to his TD production. TD to me was always a HOF due to how much he influenced the whole of the NFL for 2-3 years. 2 rings while while being the best player on your team should get you to the hall imo/ I would much rather let someone like TD over Curtis Martin who did more over time, but never dominated and was never considered one of the best players in the league, or THE best player on his team. TD is one of the rare runningbacks that did dominate the league. There are only handful really, AP, Barry Sanders, Earl Campbell, Emmit, Jim Brown, ED. TD was just shorter through knee injury. I agree with anyone who says he played on a great team with a great coach and a great scheme, but that shouldn't be seen as a penalty imo. Every single player relies on other guys getting their job done irregardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted May 13, 2018 Author Share Posted May 13, 2018 man, I hope Shaun Alexander never see this poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 The notion that TD being in means Alexander should be in is really funny. TD is the most productive running back in playoff history (and it's not even close), was the best player on two Super Bowl winners, won an MVP and an Offensive Player of the Year award in separate seasons and rushed for over 2000 yards. Statistically, I guess their three year stretches are comparable if you choose to ignore TD averaging about 80 more YPG in playoff games. In terms of legacy as a piece of NFL history? Not even in the same universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 I was never overly impressed with Alexander as a RB. Dont get me wrong, he was good, but I never felt like I was watching an all time great. Now, dont get me wrong, there are other RBs in the HOF who fit that mold.....but those guys are top 20 all time in yards....while Alexander isnt even top 30. He doesnt have the career statistical production, nor was he a notably special player in a short time. IMO, he was a good-very good RB running behind an elite OLine. If he had, say....12000 rushing yards, I think he would get in with the career he had. However, despite a HOF-caliber 5 year stretch....I dont think there is enough there to justify putting him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelonebillsfan Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 Priest Holmes was better tbqh. Underrated RB from a historical perspective, vicious runner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLExpert49 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 13 hours ago, footbull3196 said: Absolutely not. He was a total product of his offensive line and there's no way he should get in when someone like Ricky Watters isn't even in the HOF yet I agree, but he was no more a product of his offensive line (or in this case, blocking scheme) than Terrell Davis. It baffles me people didn't make the connection of, "oh, Mike Anderson ran for 1500 yards on 5 ypc in 14 games with the Broncos 2 years after Davis in that same scheme. Maybe Davis wasn't so great after all." Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Clinton Portis, Reuben Droughns, Tatum Bell/Mike Bell, Alfred Morris. Mike Shanahan isn't some kind of genius running back scout; he's a genius offensive mind who incorporated a genius blocking scheme from Alex Gibbs. Gibbs and Shanahan should be the ones in the HOF. And Shanahan knew this himself. The Clinton Portis for Champ Bailey trade was one of the most brilliant trades ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLExpert49 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Thelonebillsfan said: Priest Holmes was better tbqh. Underrated RB from a historical perspective, vicious runner. Holmes was also a product of his line. Corey Dillon is the guy who belongs in the HOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaserFocus Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 33 minutes ago, NFLExpert49 said: I agree, but he was no more a product of his offensive line (or in this case, blocking scheme) than Terrell Davis. It baffles me people didn't make the connection of, "oh, Mike Anderson ran for 1500 yards on 5 ypc in 14 games with the Broncos 2 years after Davis in that same scheme. Maybe Davis wasn't so great after all." Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Clinton Portis, Reuben Droughns, Tatum Bell/Mike Bell, Alfred Morris. Mike Shanahan isn't some kind of genius running back scout; he's a genius offensive mind who incorporated a genius blocking scheme from Alex Gibbs. Gibbs and Shanahan should be the ones in the HOF. And Shanahan knew this himself. The Clinton Portis for Champ Bailey trade was one of the most brilliant trades ever. Those other Denver backs never dominated in the postseason like Davis, a significant point of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaserFocus Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 10 hours ago, Kiwibrown said: Primarily the reason I see Alexander deserving of the Hall is due to his TD production. TD to me was always a HOF due to how much he influenced the whole of the NFL for 2-3 years. 2 rings while while being the best player on your team should get you to the hall imo/ I would much rather let someone like TD over Curtis Martin who did more over time, but never dominated and was never considered one of the best players in the league, or THE best player on his team. TD is one of the rare runningbacks that did dominate the league. There are only handful really, AP, Barry Sanders, Earl Campbell, Emmit, Jim Brown, ED. TD was just shorter through knee injury. I agree with anyone who says he played on a great team with a great coach and a great scheme, but that shouldn't be seen as a penalty imo. Every single player relies on other guys getting their job done irregardless. Curtis Martin was one of the best backs in football in his age 31 season, with nearly 1700 yards rushing. That's superior production at that age for HOF backs, and Martin was just better longer than Alexander. Higher on the rushing list, Martin was just on a different level. I don't want Chris Johnson in the HOF either, it's nothing against Alexander. A RB with a short period of greatness has to be in the Terrell Davis/Gale Sayers category to earn the honor, I don't want a huge HOF for very good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 I don't think so. Yes, he had an AMAZING five year stretch, but that's it. He did not have sustained success in this league. An amazing five year stretch is not enough to overlook the fact that he was completely average in his other four seasons, and a 9 season career is barely enough for someone like JJ Watt to get in. I don't really care for the excuse that he was overworked. If he wasn't overworked, he wouldn't have had that phenomenal 27 touchdown season. Start giving him excuses that he was overworked, and the results of him being overworked have to go, too. Can't have your cake and eat it too. He was a part of only 4 playoff wins out of 9 games. He averaged only 3.3 yards per attempt throughout his playoffs. He averaged only 62 yards rushing in his 9 playoff games. He clearly wasn't as dominant once the level of competition went up. Additionally, in spite of his 5 year stretch, he has only 3 pro bowl appearances and 2 all-pro selections. This means that, even though his five game stretch looks amazing right now, he wasn't even the clear cut best at his position at the time. 11 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said: His production dropped off because he was on the tail end of his 20's and coming off of three consecutive seasons where he was ran into the ground, capped off by 450 touches in final year and 390 in each of his previous two. Hutchinson leaving was only merely coincidental. I'd love to know where you're getting these made up numbers. The most rush attempts he had in a season was 370. He had 15 receptions that season. That's 385 touches for his most touches in a season. He never had 390 touches in a season, much less 450. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 4 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said: I'd love to know where you're getting these made up numbers. The most rush attempts he had in a season was 370. He had 15 receptions that season. That's 385 touches for his most touches in a season. He never had 390 touches in a season, much less 450. They're not made up, your just missing something. You should check that next time before posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 13 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said: They're not made up, your just missing something. You should check that next time before posting. Are you talking about preseason? Did Alexander return kicks? If I'm missing something, please enlighten me. If it's preseason... Please. Unless no other RB in that time had the same amount of preseason touches, it is inconsequential. If you're talking about the playoffs, it doesn't count in the overall spectrum of my point. Like I said, if you use his amount of touches, you have to take away from his production. You can't compare his amount of touches either without also acknowledging the career touches of other running backs. Other running backs had more career touches than Alexander. Thus, they had better LONGEVITY than Alexander. To be a HoF player, you need to have longevity. Alexander didn't. Even if he had more touches in that five season span, he didn't have more touches in his career than comparable running backs. And finally, his 5 season stretch didn't put him ahead of other backs in the league in his own era. If it did, he would have had 5 pro bowl appearances and at LEAST 4 all-pro or second team all pro selections. He didn't. He had two all-pro selections. Two seasons of being the best isn't enough to get you to the Hall of Fame, and if a player's longevity concerns at RB prevent him from cracking 10,000 career rushing yards without a significant career ending injury, he flat out isn't good enough to compete for the Hall of Fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: If you're talking about the playoffs, it doesn't count in the overall spectrum of my point. Ok....your point has nothing to do with mine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom cody Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 Nope, very solid player but not a Hall of Famer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 47 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said: Ok....your point has nothing to do with mine... What I said your point? What are you trying to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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