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Elliott Suspension Discussion

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matt79511    1

Welcome to the forum, Gmen. Great to have you back again. Any thoughts on the Giants this season?

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Rtnldave    2

Hate to say I told you so but....

I know it is a difficult thing to accept, but at some point you have to begin to consider the possibility that the league IS controlling who it wants in its gran spotlight and who it wants to keep down.

To believe that this league, one that generates multiple billions of dollars each year, is on the up and up and playing ONLY in the interest of sport, you know-may the best team win-, is absurd and foolish. Not with THAT much money  being generated.

On that note, does anyone know the amount of time Joe Mixon has to serve before he can begin to participate with the Bengals?

I mean, he was seen on VIDEO fracturing a woman's face. 

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The_Slamman    4

looking objectively at the evidence, Tiffany had multiple bruises on her body that occurred BEFORE Zeke got to town.  She represented that those old bruises were caused by Zeke.  The NFL hired a medical expert who determined that Tiffany was lying about the old bruises.  Everyone needs to understand this point.  She already is a proven liar about critical evidence.

Next, she had new bruises.  According to Tiffany, those new bruises were caused by Zeke (just like she alleged the old ones were caused by Zeke).  Zeke adamently denies causing any of the bruises.  For example, there's an affidavit from a witness who says Tiffany was in a bar fight the very night Tiffany first called the police against Zeke.  The same witness met with police and said she told the police the truth even though Tiffany asked her to lie.  Based on the evidence, no arrest was made.  Rightfully so.

But, is where the NFL's ruling is completely assbackward... the  NFL's ruling states that ZEKE  didn't prove what caused the new bruises.  This is the WTF moment everyone should be pissed about.  The NFL states that Zeke is relying on speculation about alternative theories.  Here's the problem... it is impossible to PROVE a negative.  Zeke would have literally needed to have 24/7 surveillance on Tiffany to prove where she got the new bruises.  We are at the point where an alleged victim can blatantly lie about injuries... but then still force the alleged perpetrator to prove that she is lying about everything else which is impossible to do by any standard.

lastly, I'll just say this.  The question was posed what would I do if this was one of my daughters.  I'll only say this... I sincerely hope that I've been a good enough parent to teach my daughters to not lie to police, not ask her friends to lie for her so she could "ruin his career."  Cause if my daughters did those things I would be very disappointed.  Now, if Tiffany was honest the entire time, didn't ask friends to lie for her and didn't lie about old bruises... I might feel different.  But the fact is that she did and the NFL is taking an asinine position that Zeke must prove something that he says he didn't do.  Again, it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove a negative.        

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DaBoys    1
2 hours ago, Gmen said:

What's #sad, is that Cowboys fans can ignore a detailed report of the events, thousands of text messages, a dozen witnesses and PHOTO EVIDENCE!  What more do you need?  What would it take for you to believe your little angel is guilty?  Ray Rice style video?  The amount of denial in the Cowboys fanbase in the face of overwhelming evidence in unbelievable.  The woman that was beaten is the victim here, not your season.  If that was your daughter, you'd be singing a different tune right now.

Gmen hit me.  I can show you dozens of angry antagonistic posts made by Gmen, I have several friends for witnesses, though the most important one will ultimately deny everything I say, and if need be I'll upload a picture of a bruise.  

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Gmen    4
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The_Slamman said:

looking objectively at the evidence, Tiffany had multiple bruises on her body that occurred BEFORE Zeke got to town.  She represented that those old bruises were caused by Zeke.  The NFL hired a medical expert who determined that Tiffany was lying about the old bruises.  Everyone needs to understand this point.  She already is a proven liar about critical evidence.

Next, she had new bruises.  According to Tiffany, those new bruises were caused by Zeke (just like she alleged the old ones were caused by Zeke).  Zeke adamently denies causing any of the bruises.  For example, there's an affidavit from a witness who says Tiffany was in a bar fight the very night Tiffany first called the police against Zeke.  The same witness met with police and said she told the police the truth even though Tiffany asked her to lie.  Based on the evidence, no arrest was made.  Rightfully so.

But, is where the NFL's ruling is completely assbackward... the  NFL's ruling states that ZEKE  didn't prove what caused the new bruises.  This is the WTF moment everyone should be pissed about.  The NFL states that Zeke is relying on speculation about alternative theories.  Here's the problem... it is impossible to PROVE a negative.  Zeke would have literally needed to have 24/7 surveillance on Tiffany to prove where she got the new bruises.  We are at the point where an alleged victim can blatantly lie about injuries... but then still force the alleged perpetrator to prove that she is lying about everything else which is impossible to do by any standard.

lastly, I'll just say this.  The question was posed what would I do if this was one of my daughters.  I'll only say this... I sincerely hope that I've been a good enough parent to teach my daughters to not lie to police, not ask her friends to lie for her so she could "ruin his career."  Cause if my daughters did those things I would be very disappointed.  Now, if Tiffany was honest the entire time, didn't ask friends to lie for her and didn't lie about old bruises... I might feel different.  But the fact is that she did and the NFL is taking an asinine position that Zeke must prove something that he says he didn't do.  Again, it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove a negative.        

Your concerns are addressed in the middle paragraph of page four

http://www.espn.com/pdf/2017/0811/Ezekiel-Elliott-Discipline Letter_8-11-17.pdf

Even if she was lying, or trying to get money out of Elliot, doesn't mean the abuse didn't happen.  The paragraph states that the suspension was not handed down based  on her testimony, which is good because she seems to lack some integrity herself.  The NFL made it's decision after reviewing all of the evidence and piecing it together as a whole.  Furthermore, the prosecutor says "We generally believed her for all of the incidents".

What's amazing is that while he was under this investigation, Elliot thought it would be a good idea to pull down a girl's shirt at a public parade, and then punch a man out cold in a bar.  I guess if you beat a girl three times and you don't get arrested for it, you start feeling invincible.  Good thing at least the league has some integrity.  It would very easy for Goddell to not rock the boat and just let it all go, especially after the deflate-gate court and appeal process.  The man has integrity, even if it does make him unpopular which may eventually cost him his job. 

Edited by Gmen

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matt79511    1

 I guess if you beat your wife twenty times, go to anger management counseling despite already knowing when to use your anger and upon whom to use it, have the public backing of your owner and no interest from the league given your ethnicity and profession, you start feeling invincible.

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Northland    0
4 hours ago, Gmen said:

They had very little to gain.  A first time offender for DV would get a slap on the wrist.  Maybe some probation time.  Also considering the fact that he's famous, it would draw a circus.  They have bigger fish to fry and not enough resources to fry all of them.  Unfortunately, that's the way the legal system works. Fortunately, the NFL has plenty of money and time to conduct a thorough investigation.  And because of it has high standards for player conduct, it was willing to do so. 

What's #sad, is that Cowboys fans can ignore a detailed report of the events, thousands of text messages, a dozen witnesses and PHOTO EVIDENCE!  What more do you need?  What would it take for you to believe your little angel is guilty?  Ray Rice style video?  The amount of denial in the Cowboys fanbase in the face of overwhelming evidence in unbelievable.  The woman that was beaten is the victim here, not your season.  If that was your daughter, you'd be singing a different tune right now.

I'm looking at this from an objective viewpoint, not as a Cowboys fan trying to save their season.  Fact, the woman in question had multiple bruises on her body that she claimed were caused by Zeke, yet he was not in town.  Perhaps he telepathically caused them to happen.  Then she claimed I believe that they were old bruises caused by Zeke  Didn't an NFL medical expert (perhaps an oxy moron, and hopefully not the folks who are concussion deniers) refute those claims?  Perhaps she was confused.  Or maybe she is a liar.  Then she has new bruises again caused by Zeke which he denies causing.  There are affidavits from witnesses who say she was in a bar fight with another woman which caused the new bruises.  And there are the texts and emails saved by Zeke which doesn't paint his accuser in the most positive or truthful light. 

As Slamman  points out the NFL ruling says Zeke can't or didn't prove what caused the new bruises.  How is he supposed to do that?

You can choose to believe this or not.  For me this is not about "saving our season" as some have said.  I want to get to the bottom of this.  But I find the NFL's application of justice to be highly questionable.   Players who admitted to being abusers of women or those caught red handed via video get a combined 3 games!  Elliott with conflicting evidence is handed a six game suspension. Those who are on the NFL's side say they had to take their time and be thorough.  Others have said they took so long because they needed to cherry pick evidence to build a case that could lead to a suspension.  Let's face it the NFL dropped the ball big time re domestic violence charges in the past and who better to set an example with than a star player with a high profile team?

All of that being said, if Elliot is found guilty I will be the first to say lock him up.  However, if he challenges this suspension, and is found to be innocent, what position will his accusers/haters take then?

As far as your quote that if this was my daughter I'd be singing a different tune I'll tell you this.  Like Slamman I'd like to think that if I'd raised a daughter that they had been raised not to lie to the police.  And not to brawl in public.  And not to send texts or emails asking friends to lie to support your story.

How does Zeke possibly prove something that he says he didn't do?  That's the NFL's position.  You can't prove that you didn't cause those bruises and you don't know how the woman in question got those bruises so you're guilty?  Damn glad the NFL has no jurisdiction in the real world.

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Gmen    4
4 minutes ago, Northland said:

I'm looking at this from an objective viewpoint, not as a Cowboys fan trying to save their season.  Fact, the woman in question had multiple bruises on her body that she claimed were caused by Zeke, yet he was not in town.  Perhaps he telepathically caused them to happen.  Then she claimed I believe that they were old bruises caused by Zeke  Didn't an NFL medical expert (perhaps an oxy moron, and hopefully not the folks who are concussion deniers) refute those claims?  Perhaps she was confused.  Or maybe she is a liar.  Then she has new bruises again caused by Zeke which he denies causing.  There are affidavits from witnesses who say she was in a bar fight with another woman which caused the new bruises.  And there are the texts and emails saved by Zeke which doesn't paint his accuser in the most positive or truthful light. 

As Slamman  points out the NFL ruling says Zeke can't or didn't prove what caused the new bruises.  How is he supposed to do that?

You can choose to believe this or not.  For me this is not about "saving our season" as some have said.  I want to get to the bottom of this.  But I find the NFL's application of justice to be highly questionable.   Players who admitted to being abusers of women or those caught red handed via video get a combined 3 games!  Elliott with conflicting evidence is handed a six game suspension. Those who are on the NFL's side say they had to take their time and be thorough.  Others have said they took so long because they needed to cherry pick evidence to build a case that could lead to a suspension.  Let's face it the NFL dropped the ball big time re domestic violence charges in the past and who better to set an example with than a star player with a high profile team?

All of that being said, if Elliot is found guilty I will be the first to say lock him up.  However, if he challenges this suspension, and is found to be innocent, what position will his accusers/haters take then?

As far as your quote that if this was my daughter I'd be singing a different tune I'll tell you this.  Like Slamman I'd like to think that if I'd raised a daughter that they had been raised not to lie to the police.  And not to brawl in public.  And not to send texts or emails asking friends to lie to support your story.

How does Zeke possibly prove something that he says he didn't do?  That's the NFL's position.  You can't prove that you didn't cause those bruises and you don't know how the woman in question got those bruises so you're guilty?  Damn glad the NFL has no jurisdiction in the real world.

Something doesn't add up here.  The NFL talks about three separate altercations Elliot had with the accuser, detailing exactly which body parts were bruised in each of the altercations.  The prosecutor says they believe her accounts of the altercations.  And you're telling me Elliot wasn't even in town?  Elliot talked to the investigators.  If he had a good alibi, that would have already been brought to light.  Elliot's party claims the victim's bruises came from bumping into a table at a restaurant, and also falling down the stairs.  ... I mean, come on.  Were we born yesterday?

http://www.tmz.com/2017/07/17/ezekiel-elliot-bar-fight-incident/

I suppose this man fell off his bar stool?  And the witnesses who say Elliot punched him were lying too?  ... But no arrest tho so this never happened, right?  

 

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Desperado82    44

The victim asking her friends to lie for her on Instagram the day after this "alleged" event took place says a lot.

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Rtnldave    2

That's okay, Gmen. We will take the 6 games, probably going to be 4 after all is said and done.

It matters not, we are going to best your asses anyway.

Take it boys, take it all and use it.

All of this BS tells me one thing. Other teams fear us with Zeke.

If they are celebrating over it, then they are flat out afraid.

He will be back. All we need is to stay at .500.

No one in this division is going 6 and 0 or 5 and 1.

If we round out at 3 and 3 and someone else is 4 and 2, we are in great shape.

And he will be fresh, a jump start to another gear.

So we can take it

 They pulled the same ish with NE last year. Wonder how that turned out?

 

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Gmen    4
8 hours ago, Rtnldave said:

That's okay, Gmen. We will take the 6 games, probably going to be 4 after all is said and done.

It matters not, we are going to best your asses anyway.

Take it boys, take it all and use it.

All of this BS tells me one thing. Other teams fear us with Zeke.

If they are celebrating over it, then they are flat out afraid.

He will be back. All we need is to stay at .500.

No one in this division is going 6 and 0 or 5 and 1.

If we round out at 3 and 3 and someone else is 4 and 2, we are in great shape.

And he will be fresh, a jump start to another gear.

So we can take it

 They pulled the same ish with NE last year. Wonder how that turned out?

 

Yea he'll be back to beating opponents in no time.  Choking out the clock in the fourth quarter. Exposing defenses.  

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Rtnldave    2

One thing is really bugging me thou, if the NFL is so stringent about DV and is trying to make an example of a player like Elliott, then why in the hell would they allow a player like Joe Mixon to enter its league in the first place?

Is he serving any type of suspension this year? I mean, here is a guy that was video taped fracturing a woman's face. 

Nothing?????

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Gmen    4
16 minutes ago, Rtnldave said:

One thing is really bugging me thou, if the NFL is so stringent about DV and is trying to make an example of a player like Elliott, then why in the hell would they allow a player like Joe Mixon to enter its league in the first place?

Is he serving any type of suspension this year? I mean, here is a guy that was video taped fracturing a woman's face. 

Nothing?????

Same reason it let David Irving into the league.  They don't punish someone for violating the NFL player conduct policy if they're not in the NFL.  The only thing they do is not allow you into the combine.

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Dirk Gently    3
23 hours ago, The_Slamman said:

looking objectively at the evidence, Tiffany had multiple bruises on her body that occurred BEFORE Zeke got to town.  She represented that those old bruises were caused by Zeke.  The NFL hired a medical expert who determined that Tiffany was lying about the old bruises.  Everyone needs to understand this point.  She already is a proven liar about critical evidence.

Next, she had new bruises.  According to Tiffany, those new bruises were caused by Zeke (just like she alleged the old ones were caused by Zeke).  Zeke adamently denies causing any of the bruises.  For example, there's an affidavit from a witness who says Tiffany was in a bar fight the very night Tiffany first called the police against Zeke.  The same witness met with police and said she told the police the truth even though Tiffany asked her to lie.  Based on the evidence, no arrest was made.  Rightfully so.

But, is where the NFL's ruling is completely assbackward... the  NFL's ruling states that ZEKE  didn't prove what caused the new bruises.  This is the WTF moment everyone should be pissed about.  The NFL states that Zeke is relying on speculation about alternative theories.  Here's the problem... it is impossible to PROVE a negative.  Zeke would have literally needed to have 24/7 surveillance on Tiffany to prove where she got the new bruises.  We are at the point where an alleged victim can blatantly lie about injuries... but then still force the alleged perpetrator to prove that she is lying about everything else which is impossible to do by any standard.

lastly, I'll just say this.  The question was posed what would I do if this was one of my daughters.  I'll only say this... I sincerely hope that I've been a good enough parent to teach my daughters to not lie to police, not ask her friends to lie for her so she could "ruin his career."  Cause if my daughters did those things I would be very disappointed.  Now, if Tiffany was honest the entire time, didn't ask friends to lie for her and didn't lie about old bruises... I might feel different.  But the fact is that she did and the NFL is taking an asinine position that Zeke must prove something that he says he didn't do.  Again, it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove a negative.        

Just because it needs to be said again.  Well said.

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