Elliott Suspension Discussion

[DaBoys]

3 hours ago, Gmen said:

Same reason it let David Irving into the league.  They don't punish someone for violating the NFL player conduct policy if they're not in the NFL.  The only thing they do is not allow you into the combine.

Wasn't Elliott's incident back in Ohio while preparing for the draft?

[Matts4313]

2 hours ago, DaBoys said:

Wasn't Elliott's incident back in Ohio while preparing for the draft?

June after he was drafted. 

[Matts4313]

@The_Slamman What does the phrase "you cant prove a negative" mean? I understand it contextually, but I dont understand why you use the word negative. It just seems like an odd phrase.

[matt79511]

9 hours ago, Gmen said:

Yea he'll be back to beating opponents in no time.  Choking out the clock in the fourth quarter. Exposing defenses.  

Curious to hear your thoughts on this:

http://deadspin.com/the-nfl-investigation-and-punishment-of-josh-brown-achi-1785483758

Please read the whole article.

[Northland]

54 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

Curious to hear your thoughts on this:

http://deadspin.com/the-nfl-investigation-and-punishment-of-josh-brown-achi-1785483758

Please read the whole article.

Good find.  Check out this article.

http://deadspin.com/the-nfl-is-still-just-making-it-up-as-it-goes-along-1797765706

[matt79511]

1 hour ago, Northland said:

Good find.  Check out this article.

http://deadspin.com/the-nfl-is-still-just-making-it-up-as-it-goes-along-1797765706

A close friend of mine wrote a long-form thesis paper over a year ago on why the NFL has no place administering its own line of justice and should instead leave things not decided in the courts to the media and public opinion. Retributive vs. rehabilitative justice was a big part of his composition and it's a really important aspect of such a dark and multifaceted issue as DV.

I would hope that anyone who truly wants us to see the light on Zeke's darkness as a human being and speak up for those he has harmed as well as the scores of other women affected by this issue would be willing to think deeply about all of this instead of fist-pumping at the NFL for sticking it to the Cowboys and trying to shame sports fans for wanting to support a successful athlete on their preferred team. Knowing Gmen, he will give this no level of profound thought and say something that he thinks is clever.

[The_Slamman]

8 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

@The_Slamman What does the phrase "you cant prove a negative" mean? I understand it contextually, but I dont understand why you use the word negative. It just seems like an odd phrase.

Here's an example... A famous politician once made the comment "I smoked pot but I didn't inhale."  How could anyone ever prove he actually did not inhale to the exclusion of any other possibility?

In Zeke's case he submitted evidence of alternative theories such as Tiffany being in a bar fight.  The NFL is saying that's not good enough.  Rather, Zeke needs to prove that he didn't do it to the exclusion of other possibilities.  It's an unreasonable standard.  

[Matts4313]

15 minutes ago, The_Slamman said:

Here's an example... A famous politician once made the comment "I smoked pot but I didn't inhale."  How could anyone ever prove he actually did not inhale to the exclusion of any other possibility?

In Zeke's case he submitted evidence of alternative theories such as Tiffany being in a bar fight.  The NFL is saying that's not good enough.  Rather, Zeke needs to prove that he didn't do it to the exclusion of other possibilities.  It's an unreasonable standard.  

Yeah, I understand what you are conveying, I guess its just the words themselves that throw me off. The word 'negative' in this sentence is just really weird. 

[Gmen]

10 hours ago, matt79511 said:

A close friend of mine wrote a long-form thesis paper over a year ago on why the NFL has no place administering its own line of justice and should instead leave things not decided in the courts to the media and public opinion. Retributive vs. rehabilitative justice was a big part of his composition and it's a really important aspect of such a dark and multifaceted issue as DV.

I would hope that anyone who truly wants us to see the light on Zeke's darkness as a human being and speak up for those he has harmed as well as the scores of other women affected by this issue would be willing to think deeply about all of this instead of fist-pumping at the NFL for sticking it to the Cowboys and trying to shame sports fans for wanting to support a successful athlete on their preferred team. Knowing Gmen, he will give this no level of profound thought and say something that he thinks is clever.

There's a lot I have to say about Josh Brown, but it only distracts from the real issue at hand.  But, I'll digress.

First of all, I think what he did was just as egregious as what Elliot did, and I'm glad he's off the team.  Secondly, it appears that Josh Brown was at least forthcoming about his issues and tried to seek help through anger management and counseling.  That may have bought him some leniency with the NFL with his first suspension.  Third, when the full details came out the Giants cut him so practically speaking what does another suspension serve?  He's out of the league and for all intents and purposes his career is over. If a team tried to sign him, he'd be hit with a suspension. 

Now going back to the topic at hand, let's remember that while this investigation was heating up about a month ago, Elliot decided to punch a man in the face for talking to his girl in a bar.  During the investigation, he thought it would be wise to pull down a girl's shirt in public.  All things considered, I think a 6 game suspension was lenient.  And perhaps sitting at home watching his team go 2-4 to start the season will help him rehabilitate.  Because if he doesn't care about his victims, maybe at least the fact that he let his teammates down will put him on the straight and narrow.  Or maybe he doesn't give it crap about that either.  We'll see.

[matt79511]

1 hour ago, Gmen said:

There's a lot I have to say about Josh Brown, but it only distracts from the real issue at hand.  But, I'll digress.

First of all, I think what he did was just as egregious as what Elliot did, and I'm glad he's off the team.  Secondly, it appears that Josh Brown was at least forthcoming about his issues and tried to seek help through anger management and counseling.  That may have bought him some leniency with the NFL with his first suspension.  Third, when the full details came out the Giants cut him so practically speaking what does another suspension serve?  He's out of the league and for all intents and purposes his career is over. If a team tried to sign him, he'd be hit with a suspension. 

Now going back to the topic at hand, let's remember that while this investigation was heating up about a month ago, Elliot decided to punch a man in the face for talking to his girl in a bar.  During the investigation, he thought it would be wise to pull down a girl's shirt in public.  All things considered, I think a 6 game suspension was lenient.  And perhaps sitting at home watching his team go 2-4 to start the season will help him rehabilitate.  Because if he doesn't care about his victims, maybe at least the fact that he let his teammates down will put him on the straight and narrow.  Or maybe he doesn't give it crap about that either.  We'll see.

The Deadspin article I linked clearly and articulately shows how ineffective the anger management counseling was for Brown and his family, though; it also implies that they were lenient on Josh because they weren't able to get a straight and unadulterated testimony out of Molly. You know, because she was battered emotionally and caught in the cycle of abuse.

If the league really cared about repairing its employees' and their victims' damaged psyches, I think they might consider putting a little more thought and effort into the counseling side of things, at least as much as the punitive aspect, instead of just strongly suggesting it. As it is they just seem to want to come off as strong as it suits them, and play the "Well we didn't have any information but what was available to the public" card when that suits them. Are they getting better about it, perhaps. Are they just making it up as they go along, perhaps. I just find it hard to applaud the league for how they approach DV cases and lengthy investigations (which have never really interceded until this instance) when they've botched them time and time again.

[Matts4313]

I hate when people who have very little facts speak in a position of authority. It comes off as cocky and ignorant. 

 

Gmen - just because youve read a couple articles with some speculation, that doesnt mean you actually know what happened in these situations. Chill out with the accusations. 

[Rtnldave]

We are just going round robin here. The simple fact is we have a division rival in GMen arguing against a bunch of Cowboys fans that believe the suspension was a misuse of the NFL's power considering Rice got a 2 game suspension, Brown got a 1 game suspension, Hardy got reduced from 10 to 4.

You are never going to get this idiot to agree with you so just let it go. Take the six games, win 3, and then stick it as far up his, and every other hater's dark side as you can.

He has us at 2-4, I say 3-3, while the rest of the NFC East goes 4-2 at best. The NYG have to play both Dal and Phila in that 6 game span. If we can take game 1 of the season, that would be key for us in the division as the Iggles open with Wash. Someone is getting a W and someone an L

Assuming we only win 3 games during this suspension, the best case scenario is for us to win week 1, Phila to win week 1 against Wash, NYG to win week 3 against Phila. This way, all NFC East teams will have 1 loss in the division, except for us!

Then all we have to do is win 2 out of 5 games and hope each of them lose at least 1 more during that stretch.

By week 6, someone is 4-2 and we are 3-3 with 10 games to go, 5 against NFC East teams, a healthy and pissed off Elliott. We take care of business in our division and it is ours.

Not out of the realm of possibility.

[Gmen]

With or without Elliot you weren't winning the division anyway.  Allow me express the reasons using this new and nifty bulleting feature

• Teams have a year of film on Dak Prescott.  His 'well I have a year of film on you too' quip earlier this offseason was cute, but ignores the long list of mediocre QBs that were figured out after a single season.  Derek Anderson, Nick Foles, Vince Young, Colin Kaepernick, Robert Griffin. The Giants already had him figured out last year.  I'm sure other teams watched that tape during the offseason.
• The offensive line, which made everything work last year, suddenly has question marks.  New and unproven RT.  LG has bounced around the league and is a downgrade.  Tyron Smith has back issues. 
• To go along with Elliot being suspended, let's not forget that half of your defensive front is also suspended to start the season
• The secondary is completely new and unproven
• The defense in general is not very talented, and last year they really benefited from the offense controlling the clock.  Between the offensive line taking a step back, and Elliot being suspended, they won't have that luxury again
• The Giants are in your division

[Texas_OutLaw7]

Honestly, I don't know how the rest of you can constantly engage with Gmen. All of the Eagle-posters are at least funny and provide good conversations. Gmen is just so basic. All the time. "You weren't winning anyways." Yawn. No point in even watching football then this year, I guess.

 

I am glad to hear Zeke is filing his appeal tomorrow. I am starting to come around to the idea that the suspension won't be reduced. Should that be the case I'd prefer Morris be the lead-horse. He won't. Staff loves Run DMC. But Morris has looked hungry thus far.

[Gmen]

Seesh.  I just got called basic.  Didn't realize this was a high school drama club.