Elliott Suspension Discussion

[flyingmonkey30]

Let's get back on topic guys.

 

I agree with TO7, sounds like they'll roll with DMC over Morris. Although I would imagine they would split carries 65/35 or something like that.

[WizardHawk]

1 hour ago, Texas_OutLaw7 said:

I am glad to hear Zeke is filing his appeal tomorrow. I am starting to come around to the idea that the suspension won't be reduced. Should that be the case I'd prefer Morris be the lead-horse. He won't. Staff loves Run DMC. But Morris has looked hungry thus far.

I suspect you're probably right about suspension. Brady didn't get it reduced, Elliott won't either. DMC starts out of the gate. Alfred/Smith fight for carries. Also not discounting a trade either. Most likely scenario....more passes. 

[Matts4313]

I just hope that Dak goes gangbusters when Zeke is out. If he struggles we will never hear the end of it. It will be "Daks only good because Zeke/OL" for the next 5 years. 

[D82]

17 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

I just hope that Dak goes gangbusters when Zeke is out. If he struggles we will never hear the end of it. It will be "Daks only good because Zeke/OL" for the next 5 years. 

I think he's shown he can take control when needed. I expect him to do well if Zeke is out.

[Northland]

I'm not overly worried about our running game in Zeke's absence.  We will miss Zeke's explosiveness, however Morris and McFadden have proven that they can run in this league.  That combined with our OL tells me we will still have a quality running game.

My concern is on the other side of the ball.  I just don't see a DL that can provide consistent pressure on opposing QB's.  I don't mean sacks.  I mean the steady ability to disrupt the rhythm and timing of an opposing QB.  This will be a challenge all season and will result in some high scoring games.  Factor in a relatively green secondary and lack of pressure up front will prove to be chaotic.

[D82]

1 minute ago, Northland said:

I'm not overly worried about our running game in Zeke's absence.  We will miss Zeke's explosiveness, however Morris and McFadden have proven that they can run in this league.  That combined with our OL tells me we will still have a quality running game.

My concern is on the other side of the ball.  I just don't see a DL that can provide consistent pressure on opposing QB's.  I don't mean sacks.  I mean the steady ability to disrupt the rhythm and timing of an opposing QB.  This will be a challenge all season and will result in some high scoring games.  Factor in a relatively green secondary and lack of pressure up front will prove to be chaotic.

A lot of our pressure is likely going to come from the middle...Maliek Collins looks to be improving and I really think he may be a special player for us. 

[Northland]

7 minutes ago, Desperado82 said:

A lot of our pressure is likely going to come from the middle...Maliek Collins looks to be improving and I really think he may be a special player for us. 

I agree re Collins, but I think our DL as a whole is an area of concern.

[D82]

5 minutes ago, Northland said:

I agree re Collins, but I think our DL as a whole is an area of concern.

Certainly. 

[Rtnldave]

There are also 3 key defensive players that NO ONE has even mentioned yet. J. Smith, C. Tapper and T. Charlton.

If Smith and Charlton can have HALF the success on defense that Elliott and Prescott had last year on offense, our defense will be significantly improved.

If Tapper can play even a supporting role as a rotational player, it will add to it.

A young, inexperienced secondary will look pretty good if those players can step it up.

As for the offense, I am counting on two players to help take the heat off of Prescott and Zeke during the suspension. They would be Switzer and Gathers. If you can get Switzer and Beasley on the field at the same time, we can do big time damage underneath with quick slants, bubble screens, etc. It offers big time match ups to opposing LB's.

As for the redzone, Gathers looks to me like he can out jump/muscle ANYONE in the redzone.

Of course, all of this has to come together, but no more absurd than the Giants revamped defense last year that proved semi-good. I mean, it got them to the playoffs.

[matt79511]

We're gonna be pretty reliant on our quick passing game in Zeke's absence. 4/5 of our starting offensive line played on Saturday night as well as all of our contingency plans at RB and the results were mixed. Whereas, Dak, Dez, Beasley, and Witten all sat out, so I think there's more theoretical upside with those guys. But we're probably not just gonna roll over teams like we did at times last year. Gonna need some special teams and turnover luck to favor us to stay in the hunt.

[Northland]

37 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

We're gonna be pretty reliant on our quick passing game in Zeke's absence. 4/5 of our starting offensive line played on Saturday night as well as all of our contingency plans at RB and the results were mixed. Whereas, Dak, Dez, Beasley, and Witten all sat out, so I think there's more theoretical upside with those guys. But we're probably not just gonna roll over teams like we did at times last year. Gonna need some special teams and turnover luck to favor us to stay in the hunt.

Good points.  I would like to think as you point out with a fully healthy receiving corps, and Tyron back at LT the passing game picks up which will help the running game.  My concern as mentioned above is our DL and their ability to consistently apply pressure.  I don't know how realistic it is to expect young, unproven players to step in and be steady contributors.  For example if Charlton ends up with 6 sacks or more I would be happy. Yet how realistic is that expectation?  DE is a tough transition for a lot of college players.

[Northland]

1 hour ago, Rtnldave said:

There are also 3 key defensive players that NO ONE has even mentioned yet. J. Smith, C. Tapper and T. Charlton.

If Smith and Charlton can have HALF the success on defense that Elliott and Prescott had last year on offense, our defense will be significantly improved.

If Tapper can play even a supporting role as a rotational player, it will add to it.

A young, inexperienced secondary will look pretty good if those players can step it up.

As for the offense, I am counting on two players to help take the heat off of Prescott and Zeke during the suspension. They would be Switzer and Gathers. If you can get Switzer and Beasley on the field at the same time, we can do big time damage underneath with quick slants, bubble screens, etc. It offers big time match ups to opposing LB's.

As for the redzone, Gathers looks to me like he can out jump/muscle ANYONE in the redzone.

Of course, all of this has to come together, but no more absurd than the Giants revamped defense last year that proved semi-good. I mean, it got them to the playoffs.

I don't dispute the theory.  It's the reality that concerns me.  I just think it's tough to expect young players to step in and be solid on the DL especially DE.  Not saying they can't get there eventually, but DE is a tough transition for a lot of younger players.  That and a kiddy corps secondary could make for some adventures.

[matt79511]

36 minutes ago, Northland said:

Good points.  I would like to think as you point out with a fully healthy receiving corps, and Tyron back at LT the passing game picks up which will help the running game.  My concern as mentioned above is our DL and their ability to consistently apply pressure.  I don't know how realistic it is to expect young, unproven players to step in and be steady contributors.  For example if Charlton ends up with 6 sacks or more I would be happy. Yet how realistic is that expectation?  DE is a tough transition for a lot of college players.

I guess my counter would be that we've averaged 32 sacks a year for the last three season yet posted a 29-19 record in the regular season. The defense pretty much is what it is- it becomes more of an issue in the playoffs, but it's our offense that dictates our level of success as a team for the first four months of the year. We have so much star power on that side but questionable depth in some key areas (most notably QB and LT) so the fact that we're already down one of our several All-Pros is worrisome.

But 6 games is a small sample and the difference between 2-4 and 4-2 could come down to just a couple of plays. So we'll need big plays on special teams and turnovers to favor us. Even a bad defense can still get turnovers with a little luck as 2013 showed us.

[Rtnldave]

2 hours ago, Northland said:

I don't dispute the theory.  It's the reality that concerns me.  I just think it's tough to expect young players to step in and be solid on the DL especially DE.  Not saying they can't get there eventually, but DE is a tough transition for a lot of younger players.  That and a kiddy corps secondary could make for some adventures.

All great points...and accurate. But consider this, the teams that can navigate setbacks like this one by finding OTHER approaches to winning AND having those young players step up and execute are the ones that win championships.

If this team is going to survive this suspension and compete for a title it has to reinvent itself. It WAS relying heavily on the running game, especially on 1st downs. Do you know that Dallas led the league in yards gained on 1st down? I think it was like 4 yards on average. Making for a manageable 2nd and 3rd down. Also controls the clock.

Unless McFadden or Morris can duplicate that, we have to rely somewhat on the short passing game to replicate that. I believe with Switzer and Beasley we can do exactly that.

Now imagine a LB that can cover, rush the passer and create turnovers. We very well may have that guy on the roster in J. Smith.

Imagine a young, fast pair of DE's that can actually create pressure? They don't have to be sack masters, just put on the pressure. Could give our DB's every opportunity to play well and with confidence.

 

[acowboys62]

8 hours ago, Gmen said:

With or without Elliot you weren't winning the division anyway.  Allow me express the reasons using this new and nifty bulleting feature

• Teams have a year of film on Dak Prescott.  His 'well I have a year of film on you too' quip earlier this offseason was cute, but ignores the long list of mediocre QBs that were figured out after a single season.  Derek Anderson, Nick Foles, Vince Young, Colin Kaepernick, Robert Griffin. The Giants already had him figured out last year.  I'm sure other teams watched that tape during the offseason. Yes because no one has ever been good their second year because teams had film on them...
• The offensive line, which made everything work last year, suddenly has question marks.  New and unproven RT.  LG has bounced around the league and is a downgrade.  Tyron Smith has back issues. Those back issues sure didn't slow him down last year...One can argue we got stronger and younger in the offseason
• To go along with Elliot being suspended, let's not forget that half of your defensive front is also suspended to start the season This is a fair point, and it is not like that is a strong area to begin with
• The secondary is completely new and unproven Fair point, the flip side not like the Eagles are proven on either side of the ball, same with the Giants OLine, and same with Cousins and that offense
• The defense in general is not very talented, and last year they really benefited from the offense controlling the clock.  Between the offensive line taking a step back, and Elliot being suspended, they won't have that luxury again When did the OLine take a step back? Our weak link retired and a journey man left in FA...hardly see the step back when at least one of those guys is replaced by a top talen. Umm...we still have 3 starting NFL RBs. 
• The Giants are in your division Which means Eli is in the division, which means the Giants will be able to lose any game in which they play because of his declining skills. 

Back on topic...

I think the general consensus is the same.  If Zeke did it, he probably should be out longer.  The problem is, the NFL made a decision and unlike a court, won't make anything public so no one except those involved with the incidents and the investigation will know what the NFL has or does not have.  Just seems insane that a person can make a decision based on a feeling.  I feel many ways throughout a day...yet they felt like they could believe the accuser despite her lying multiple times and trying to be shady.  That is just stupid.  

This was perfect for the NFL, they had egg on their face and they got a big name on the biggest team in the NFL and threw the book at him. A win for the small minority of NFL fans or those who just think the NFL is a run away train of thugs and a loss for those who understand things like the law and common sense. I will say it again here, if Zeke did this, he should be out at least 8 games, but if he did it, why can't the NFL show us what they found?  Theoretically the Ohio prosecutor would want that information and re-open the investigation right? 

Does anyone know if she filed a civil suit here?  If not, I have to question why.