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Greg Williams on Denzel Ward. Lets think about this more


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On 5/18/2018 at 12:12 PM, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

As an occasional thing I see it.  Teams run goal line formations sometimes too, and it’s effective.  That doesn’t mean it then becomes your base defense.

Well thank Christ he let them get eaten alive every other way then.

Needing an infusion of talent doesn’t mean you need need to try to reinvent how the game is played. 

Are you trying to use the fact the coaching staff played guys out of position last season as a positive?  

Because it only took 20 weeks of football for things obvious to casual fans to become apparent to the coaching staff.

I was just saying the Halo scheme wasn’t just something he put together for the browns. He used it at other places. He prolly used it for different situations. Thing in Cleveland the Browns lack of legit talent limited what he thought he could do and went to something he has tried before. Prolly thought he rather have an offense go with the short passing attack and force an offense to go down the field at 8-9plays where it potentially allows a mistake to be made or allow a DL to make a play compared to getting burned and the offense is down the field in 2 or 3. Easier to keep things in front and rally to than try and chase someone down.  

Again, with another major contributor gone. Williams did what he thought could work with the players he had and didn’t really fit the needs of his schemes. Also he wasn’t reinventing anything. He just played an over exaggerated cover1 to cover 3 scheme. He just kept everything in front of the FS at all costs. Specially a guy who isn’t a true FS but literally was the best thing they could put back there. 

Not using as a positive but just said they had to play Peppers out of position cause they wanted the best players on the field as possible. Peppers isn’t a FS but was the best potential player for the position and it allowed for Kindred to play SS. Only player who played out out of position but now will be moved to SS where he deserves to be.

you think the weren’t obvious to that? What can Greg Williams do? He has to deal with he roster and players given to him. He tried to turn chicken chit into chicken salad. Now Dorsey gave him legit talent and talent that actually fits his scheme

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8 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

What do think about the pick up of Marcell Frazier?

He will push the back end talent of the DE. He could be the reason we see Orchard finally losing his roster spot 

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1 hour ago, buno67 said:

I was just saying the Halo scheme wasn’t just something he put together for the browns. He used it at other places. He prolly used it for different situations. Thing in Cleveland the Browns lack of legit talent limited what he thought he could do and went to something he has tried before.

This really isn’t true though.  Kindred played well as a SS.  Both corners have started for multiple seasons for multiple teams.  BBC was one of the more effective slot corners in the game. Our FS was a first rounder.  

Im not going to day they were great, but this wasn’t a bunch of below replacement level scrubs. Those “awful” corners will be playing and contributing for other teams this upcoming season.

1 hour ago, buno67 said:

Prolly thought he rather have an offense go with the short passing attack and force an offense to go down the field at 8-9plays where it potentially allows a mistake to be made or allow a DL to make a play compared to getting burned and the offense is down the field in 2 or 3. Easier to keep things in front and rally to than try and chase someone down.  

I get that, but when you make it that easy to complete short passes, it’s not that difficult tbh.

1 hour ago, buno67 said:

Again, with another major contributor gone. Williams did what he thought could work with the players he had and didn’t really fit the needs of his schemes. Also he wasn’t reinventing anything. He just played an over exaggerated cover1 to cover 3 scheme. He just kept everything in front of the FS at all costs. Specially a guy who isn’t a true FS but literally was the best thing they could put back there. 

Then why not play Nacua? Or McCourtey who had played FS previously? Why does a guy like Peppers who has 4.4 speed need a 25 yard cushion? 

1 hour ago, buno67 said:

Not using as a positive but just said they had to play Peppers out of position cause they wanted the best players on the field as possible. Peppers isn’t a FS but was the best potential player for the position and it allowed for Kindred to play SS. Only player who played out out of position but now will be moved to SS where he deserves to be.

I get that, but why not let him play a traditional FS role? 

1 hour ago, buno67 said:

you think the weren’t obvious to that? What can Greg Williams do? He has to deal with he roster and players given to him. He tried to turn chicken chit into chicken salad. Now Dorsey gave him legit talent and talent that actually fits his scheme

It wasn’t chicken sht though.  It was a mediocre group that he did literally nothing to elevate. I’m not evaluating Williams on results, Sashi couldn’t fix all of the missteps of the previous regimes in 2 offseasons, but that doesn’t give him a free pass for running the most absurd defensive package I’ve seen in the NFL in my life. 

Id even understand the scheme occasionally against elite QB’s where you want to limit big plays, but he allowed guys like Brissett and Huntley to play pitch and catch without so much as even attempting to change his scheme.  

He aligned his corners 12 yards off the LoS on 3rd and 5 and you’re defending the scheme....

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4 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I get that, but when you make it that easy to complete short passes, it’s not that difficult tbh.

Yeah, to be honest I'd rather get beat once or twice a game deep than just get picked apart all game long. The end result may be the same but maybe the QB misses on his deep throw, more likely than missing on an easy throw before pressure can even get there. We weren't winning anyway so why we didn't adjust just to see if it worked better is a bad sign.

That said, I'm hoping we are one of those offenses that takes advantage of those situations unlike last year's offense.

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6 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Yeah, to be honest I'd rather get beat once or twice a game deep than just get picked apart all game long. The end result may be the same but maybe the QB misses on his deep throw, more likely than missing on an easy throw before pressure can even get there. We weren't winning anyway so why we didn't adjust just to see if it worked better is a bad sign.

That said, I'm hoping we are one of those offenses that takes advantage of those situations unlike last year's offense.

Exactly.  He was more afraid of what could happen than what was actually happening every game.  We had the highest opposing passer rating in the league iirc.

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48 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Exactly.  He was more afraid of what could happen than what was actually happening every game.  We had the highest opposing passer rating in the league iirc.

Yeah, one thing that bothered me was how little the scheme was designed to match the opposition. There were teams we played that had mediocre-armed QBs with only one receiver who was a legitimate deep threat, but then we still ran Halo.

I have less of a problem running that defense against Brissett (who has a strong arm and mobile feet in the pocket) than I do Brett Hundley (who has a mediocre arm and is bad when his initial reads are taken away). I get fearing what could happen, but damn, how can you let a guy like Hundley have open passes all day? I have similar thoughts regarding our games against Bengals (286 yards and 4 TDs; and 214 yards and 2 TDs), Titans (203 yards passing), and the Vikings (288 yards and a TD). That is five games where the holistic defensive strategy was just wrong.

There are also situations in-game where we should have really switched away from the Halo and opted not to, but that is for another conversation.

While, statistically, Williams is right about our pass rush. It honestly looked fine, but they just did not have enough time to get to the QB. I totally support entirely revamping the secondary. EJ Gaines, BBC, and Carrie are all highly-rated corners from an analytics perspective, and the eye-test supports that conclusion. Those guys make winning plays. Denzel Ward is outstanding at preventing his receiver from getting open. Demarious Randall is a solid corner with potential to be an outstanding safety, and moreover, he should let Peppers move back to his natural position. I.E., frankly, there is no reason that this summer's improvements should not immediately strengthen the secondary and pass rush.

My concern is, if we start the season and this continues to be a problem, then are any of the coaches actually going to take blame? Because, at that point, something clearly is not working correctly.

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5 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

What do think about the pick up of Marcell Frazier?

I loved him. Thought he was going to be a surprise 3rd round pick. I think he makes the team as the 5th DE.

LE: Ogbah/Nassib

RE: Garrett/Smith/Frazier

(I think Chad Thomas plays 90% inside)

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2 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

I loved him. Thought he was going to be a surprise 3rd round pick. I think he makes the team as the 5th DE.

LE: Ogbah/Nassib

RE: Garrett/Smith/Frazier

(I think Chad Thomas plays 90% inside)

I thought more people would be excited about this, I liked him a lot at Mizzou and thought he was going to be the next in line but his stud DL coach left for Miami amd he suffered. The talent is there 

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