Soko Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 6 hours ago, Jakuvious said: What do any of those players having similar carries per game matter, when none of them were nearly as productive on those carries as Kamara? Like, that's a completely random assortment of players you pulled. Why are we mentioning Theo Riddick, for instance, when he has never topped 4.0 YPA in a single season? What on earth does he have to do with whether or not Kamara can handle a larger workload? It's not like Riddick was an absurdly efficient player who was given a heavier workload and then failed. Your point doesn't connect to your stats at all. And besides, this isn't the early 2000s anymore. Few teams have the expectation that their lead back handles 350 - 400 touches anymore. Kamara had 200, and occasional kick return duties. He's 4 or 5 touches per game away from the workload of a guy like Devonta Freeman or Jay Ajayi. And there's no rational reason nor historical evidence to believe that those 4-5 touches will suddenly tank his efficiency. Regression to the mean and some more attention will probably dip his efficiency, sure. But the premise of needing to prove you can be a workhorse is one part non-sense, one part 15 years out of date. I remember this argument years ago when Charles was pulling in less carries than Thomas Jones. It was poor logic then and it's poor logic now. The carries weren’t supposed to be indicative of his production. They were indicative of the fact that Kamara hasn’t proven the ability to shoulder a heavier load. That’s all. Obviously he’s a better player than the others, but they’re all similar 3rd down/change of pace type guys. There’s a pretty obvious reason why I used carries instead of touches...there are plenty of guys who get lots of touches that aren’t deemed “workhorse running backs”. The point I made is strictly in terms of the durability/every down running back comment that was made, so bringing in how that isn’t necessary anymore doesn’t really matter at all. Whether it’s needed anymore or not, the guy hasn’t proved it yet when - just because he was awesome in his rookie season - it’s a given that he has that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 4 hours ago, sammymvpknight said: Kamara doesn’t even need to be a “workhorse” back to put up elite production. Go re-read what I’m responding to. 4 hours ago, sammymvpknight said: Not sure how that could be used against him. Kamara put up better production than many “top 10” RBs with about half the work. You don’t see how insane that is? If Kamara was selected where Fournette was draft...people would already be questioning if he is not only top 10, but if he is the best RB in the NFL. Even if every indication is pointing toward the NFL scouts being very wrong on Kamara...there is natural skepticism and people tend to use it as a tie breaker Again, strictly responding to the “workhorse back” comment. You’re jumping the gun because you think I’m attacking your guy. 4 hours ago, sammymvpknight said: And why should we consider Dalvin Cook a workhorse? The guy tore up his knee the first quarter of the season as a “workhorse”. Isn’t the argument that Kamara hasn’t proven that he could “hold up”? Well...Cook didn’t hold up. And now not only does the guy have personality red flags, he also has a history of ACL which puts him at muncher higher risk of tearing either the same or contralateral knee. No, the argument is that Kamara hasn’t shown the level of durability to be a workhorse. I never said anything about Cook. He hasn’t proven it either at an NFL level. All I brought up was that Kamara hasn’t proven the ability to be an every down player that’s considered a workhorse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 2 hours ago, bucsfan333 said: Someone's gonna have to carry the load while Ingram is suspended the first four games. Is gonna be Boston Scott? Daniel Lasco? Jonathan Williams? Trey Edmunds? Terrance West? It’s whoever will be the best in pass protection...and I suspect that it will be West or Hightower. The dark horse is Boston Scott...he’s been impressive so far, especially on special teams. But it’s rare for a rookie RB to be good at pass protection which is enormous for filling the Ingram role. But the reality of the situation is that the Saints will likely change their offense the first quarter of the season. They’ll probably make Kamara a bigger part of the running game, and they’ll probably run less on the whole. I wouldn’t be too excited to get any of the guys you mention in fantasy. Kamara may only see a 10-15% increase in carries this season. I think Kamara has a good chance to be an MVP candidate this year because of what I expect him to do through the air. As good as he was in the passing game last year, the first half of the season he was getting by almost solely on athleticism and instincts. His route tree expanded quickly over the second half of the season, and he really became the second best receiver on the team. Reports out of Saints camp is that Kamara is the only guy on the team that puts more time on film than Brees. He’s prepping to put up one of the great receiving seasons by a RB in NFL history. He has had 10 lbs of muscle over the offseason as is hovering around 225-230 lb. I can legitimately see him putting up 100+ catches and over 1000 yards through the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 57 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: Go re-read what I’m responding to. Again, strictly responding to the “workhorse back” comment. You’re jumping the gun because you think I’m attacking your guy. No, the argument is that Kamara hasn’t shown the level of durability to be a workhorse. I never said anything about Cook. He hasn’t proven it either at an NFL level. All I brought up was that Kamara hasn’t proven the ability to be an every down player that’s considered a workhorse. While I agree with you...I don’t see how it’s relevant. Kamara is such an asset to the receiving game that it doesn’t make a ton of sense to give the ball to him 25 carries per game. It’s not that he couldn’t do it...it’s just poor utilization of resources. And when Kamara could very well put up close to 2000 APY anyway...I don’t see how that could be held against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 32 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said: While I agree with you...I don’t see how it’s relevant. Kamara is such an asset to the receiving game that it doesn’t make a ton of sense to give the ball to him 25 carries per game. It’s not that he couldn’t do it...it’s just poor utilization of resources. And when Kamara could very well put up close to 2000 APY anyway...I don’t see how that could be held against him. Well...it’s not entirely relevant, but it was the discussion (at least, in the relation to Cook). Neither has really proven that ability - which I do think is an asset in today’s NFL. Its fine if you or anyone else thinks he can be a 20 carry per game kind of guy, it just hasn’t be done yet, so I don’t see why it’s a joke that someone could possibly think otherwise. That’s all I was getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 18 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said: ...I don’t see how that could be held against him. Because he's never done it. We're talking about the most complete back in NFL history and you can't put Kamara or anybody else on that pedestal over guys who have actually done it. Kamara would make the list of RBs who have the potential to be the most complete back in history. But his current resume is pathetically anemic compared to the greats who have actually accomplished HOF- worthy feats in the NFL. Right now, he's a fart in the wind and NFL history is littered with guys who had great athleticism and potential - but never made it to the HOF for a variety of reasons. Kamara is about 7- 10 years of top- end production away from even entering this conversation. Check back in 2025 and we'll review his career then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENINCH Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Best bet I've ever made!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamedayGuru Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 1 hour ago, TENINCH said: Best bet I've ever made!! That's a Chevy fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breesus mode Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 On 6/14/2018 at 6:15 AM, bucsfan333 said: Last year, Kamara was obviously behind Ingram in terms of carries. In 2016, Kamara had 103 carries, behind Jalen Herd's 122 carries and their QB Dobbs' 150 carries. In 2015, Kamara had 107 carries. Again behind Herd's 277 carries and Dobbs' 146. I don't think it's absurd to question whether or not Kamara can handle the load as the feature RB. That's butch jones being an idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamedayGuru Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 I'm gonna have to start a Kamara vs Cook poll aren't i? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 On 5/19/2018 at 11:10 AM, Scout said: Who are the best 10 RB in the NFL? 1. Le'Veon Bell Proven commodity. Proven production. Silky smooth runner. Elite vision. Still young. In prime. Constantly at the top of the league in all purpose yards with or without suspensions. 2. David Johnson In prime. Elite production. WR qualities. Deadly in the open field. All purpose yards favorite. Special with the ball in his hands. 3. Ezekiel Elliott. Proven rushing production. Big bulldog with long speed, and a huge face. Led league in rushing the year before last, and was a top 10 rusher last year. Has more rushing yards than any other back since coming into the league even with a 6 game suspension. 3 down player. 4. Todd Gurley Can catch and run. Great size speed agility combination. All around player. #2 in rushing yards last year. Home run threat. Led the league in all purpose yards in 2017. 5. Lesean McCoy Probably the most decorated of the elite backs. Jump cut extraordinaire. Would have spent years on the top 3 of this list. Past his prime, but still clinging to his twenties at age 29. Still producing finishing 6th in rushing in 2016 and 4th last year. 6. Jordan Howard Oversize grizzly bear with sneaky speed and tree trunk legs. Down hill runner who is underrated or over rated depending on who you talk to. The numbers don't lie though. He has started his career with 2 one-thousand yard seasons finishing 2nd in 2016 and 6th last year. 7. Kareem Hunt Could go a few directions here, but the league leader in rushing yards for 2017 is bound to get some attention. Compact bowling ball with tree trunk legs. Low center of gravity with great balance and vision. Unproven player. 8. Leonard Fournette A bit of a projection. Unproven player. Elite size speed combination. Was one of only 9 RBs to have over 1,000 yards his rookie year. Super measuables with plenty of potential to be a top back in the NFL for a long time. 9. Saquan Barkley Completely unproven. Hasn't even played yet. Elite size, speed, vision, acceleration, agility, and character. Highly rated generational prospect. Rookies have led the league in rushing for 2 years straight, and Barkley has all the tools to be higher on this list by week 5. 10. Devonta Freeman Proven player. Only played in 14 games last season but was a top 10 rusher the previous 2 seasons. Big time TD production. Bowling ball, with low center of gravity, elite agility, and surprising power. 11. Melvin Gordan 12. Alvin Kamara 13. Alex Collins 14. Jay Ajayi 15. Lamar Miller 16. Mark Ingram 17. Dalvin Cook 18. Carlos Hyde 19. Legarrette Blount 20. Dion Lewis 21. Derrick Henry 22. DeMarco Murray 23. CJ Anderson 24. Isaiah Crowell 25. Lamar Miller 26. Joe Mixon 27. Reshad Penny 28. Christian Mcaffrey 29. Sony Michel 30. Latavious Murray 31. Marshawn Lynch 32. Derrius Guice Who'd I forget? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/17/2018 at 2:02 AM, DaBoys said: Who'd I forget? Can't say you've forgotten him per se, but I do think Corey Clement will prove himself to belong on this list by seasons end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 I don't think there are 32 backs better than Kenyan Drake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Scout said: I don't think there are 32 backs better than Kenyan Drake Who would you take off the list? I probably have Blount ranked to high, and obviously I could see someone liking Drake more than the rookies(Penny, Michel, and Guice.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 hour ago, DaBoys said: Who would you take off the list? I probably have Blount ranked to high, and obviously I could see someone liking Drake more than the rookies(Penny, Michel, and Guice.) DeMarco Murray. Probably Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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