ninjapirate Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) @utley4568 I am sure Cesar, Moniak and Sixto might get them at least interested for archer if they dont just accept that. Edited August 16, 2017 by ninjapirate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey5djh Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 7 hours ago, ninjapirate said: @utley4568 I am sure Cesar, Moniak and Sixto might get them at least interested for archer if they dont just accept that. Seems like a hell of a package. Is Archer worth that after his down year last year? I know he has a nice contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utley Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 8 hours ago, ninjapirate said: @utley4568 I am sure Cesar, Moniak and Sixto might get them at least interested for archer if they dont just accept that. I don't think Sixto even has to be involved. Cesar and Moniak or a lesser prospect might be enough. Especially when you consider their ages (Cesar is 2 years younger), and the fact that Cesar has been worth 2.3 more wins since the beginning of 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 I don't know that going after Archer is right for us. We have a few years at least until we are competitive anyway. No need to make a big trade depleting some of the farm now. Especially when the farm is basically the lone bright spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utley Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, mse326 said: I don't know that going after Archer is right for us. We have a few years at least until we are competitive anyway. No need to make a big trade depleting some of the farm now. Especially when the farm is basically the lone bright spot. With Cesar as the centerpiece, I don't think a trade depletes the farm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, utley4568 said: With Cesar as the centerpiece, I don't think a trade depletes the farm. I think we are overrating Cesar if you think he can centerpiece a deal for Archer I know he's playing really well and did last year, but I think you'd be hardpressed to find any non Philly fan (even ones that are knowledgeable) to say he is good enough to warrant Archer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utley Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Just now, mse326 said: I think we are overrating Cesar if you think he can centerpiece a deal for Archer I know he's playing really well and did last year, but I think you'd be hardpressed to find any non Philly fan (even ones that are knowledgeable) to say he is good enough to warrant Archer. If you remove the name and just look at his numbers, he's been really good. The Phillies sucking hasn't helped him, but he could definitely be the centerpiece of a deal for Archer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, utley4568 said: If you remove the name and just look at his numbers, he's been really good. The Phillies sucking hasn't helped him, but he could definitely be the centerpiece of a deal for Archer. I'm not denying he's been really good. I intentionally used "we" when talking about him. I know it's weird to say that I am overrating him too as it seems counterintuitive to realize that, but I do think that's the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utley Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 1 minute ago, mse326 said: I'm not denying he's been really good. I intentionally used "we" when talking about him. I know it's weird to say that I am overrating him too as it seems counterintuitive to realize that, but I do think that's the truth. I get what you're saying. I don't know if it's overrating him, as much as it is just being more aware of his value. I do think we value him more than most non-Phillies fans would, I just don't know if it's overrating him. I actually posed this question in the gameday thread too. I've always had a tough time gauging his value, and really want some non-Phillie fan opinions on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mm6492 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I'm good with giving Franco another shot next year. If he struggles, we make a play for Machado or find a trade/another FA that next offseason. Don't wanna give up on a 24 year old to quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjapirate Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 8 hours ago, mse326 said: I'm not denying he's been really good. I intentionally used "we" when talking about him. I know it's weird to say that I am overrating him too as it seems counterintuitive to realize that, but I do think that's the truth. It does seem like he is collectively underrated. I think it stems from him never being a touted prospect and the community thinking that the other shoe will drop eventually. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utley Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 hour ago, ninjapirate said: It does seem like he is collectively underrated. I think it stems from him never being a touted prospect and the community thinking that the other shoe will drop eventually. Yeah, it's really odd. I think I'm even guilty of it. The fact that I'd rather start Kingery next year over a 3-4 WAR player is pretty crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjapirate Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 hour ago, utley4568 said: Yeah, it's really odd. I think I'm even guilty of it. The fact that I'd rather start Kingery next year over a 3-4 WAR player is pretty crazy. I undervalue him as well. It will be interesting what happens with Cesar. Because realistically we should be able to get a lot for a 4 war 2b before the season starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utley Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, ninjapirate said: I undervalue him as well. It will be interesting what happens with Cesar. Because realistically we should be able to get a lot for a 4 war 2b before the season starts. Especially with that much control. I think he'd be a useful part of a Stanton trade, especially since Miami seemingly wants to unload Gordon. I still think the Rays are the perfect fit though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjapirate Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Just now, utley4568 said: Especially with that much control. I think he'd be a useful part of a Stanton trade, especially since Miami seemingly wants to unload Gordon. I still think the Rays are the perfect fit though. Stanton doesnt want to be here and he can say no. So I would give up on those thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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