Star Players To Sit Out?

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Just now, HorizontoZenith said:

How do you personally define distraction?  If you're constantly asked about something instead of what you should be focusing on (football), is that not by definition a distraction?  

Players get asked non-football questions all the time in interviews.

[MacReady]

Just now, Darth Pees said:

Players get asked non-football questions all the time in interviews.

How often do players get asked every single day about their backup QB? 

How often do Packer players get asked about Aaron's pre-game activities and political thoughts and opinions? 

I just hate this idea that Colin Kaepernick is a good quarterback being persecuted.  And I hate how people say Kaepernick showed he was a good QB in his last year.  He didn't, and he wasn't.  Colin Kaepernick started 11 games in 2016.  The Niners averaged 20 points a game with him starting.  NFL average for a game is 23 points.  Blaine Gabbert led the Niners to 22.2 points per game start in his five starts.  Kaepernick scored over the NFL average once in 11 starts.  Gabbert scored above the NFL average twice in five starts.  The year before, Kaepernick averaged 13 points as a starter in 8 games.  Gabbert averaged 3 points more per game taking over the final 8 games.  In 2014, Kaepernick averaged 19 points per game.  So in his final year as a starter, his points per game dropped 4 points below NFL average.  His last two years he did worse than the other QB. 

What is happening to Kaepernick is not some mass blacklisting unparalleled in the NFL.  If Tom Brady knelt during the anthem, he'd have a job.  If Aaron Rodgers knelt, he'd have a job.  If Russel Wilson, Deshaun Watson, Carson Wentz, Derek Carr, Cam Newton or any good QB knelt during the anthem, they'd have a job. 

Players and fans need to realize that there is a Distraction/Talent comparison.  TO was wildly talented, wildly distracting.  He kept his job.  Colin Kaepernick is wildly distracting, average at best.  He's not being persecuted for his beliefs or his protesting.  He's being persecuted because his protesting to talent level is not conducive to 50% of the country, and 50% of nearly every fanbase. 

That's the way the NFL works.  That's the way the NFL worked.  That's the way the NFL will always work.  The bottom line is money.  It's why Amy Schumer movies bomb, it's why Jennifer Lawrence movies are making less and less money with each consecutive release, and it's why Wonder Woman broke records.  If you are an entertainer and you open your mouth, regardless of which side of the political spectrum comes out, you're going to alienate fans, which alienates studios or teams or bosses due to the lost revenue from those fans. 

Some people understand it and shut up not because they don't want to speak up for their ideals, but because they realize the benefits to not alienating 50% of their potential revenue source. 

I don't get why people still argue over Kaepernick. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

4 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

How often do players get asked every single day about their backup QB? 

How often do players right now get asked about kneeling, charity events, etc. etc. that aren't football questions? Happens all the time.

How often do Packer players get asked about Aaron's pre-game activities and political thoughts and opinions? 

I just hate this idea that Colin Kaepernick is a good quarterback being persecuted.  And I hate how people say Kaepernick showed he was a good QB in his last year.  He didn't, and he wasn't.  Colin Kaepernick started 11 games in 2016.  The Niners averaged 20 points a game with him starting.  NFL average for a game is 23 points.  Blaine Gabbert led the Niners to 22.2 points per game start in his five starts.  Kaepernick scored over the NFL average once in 11 starts.  Gabbert scored above the NFL average twice in five starts.  The year before, Kaepernick averaged 13 points as a starter in 8 games.  Gabbert averaged 3 points more per game taking over the final 8 games.  In 2014, Kaepernick averaged 19 points per game.  So in his final year as a starter, his points per game dropped 4 points below NFL average.  His last two years he did worse than the other QB. 

I think Kaepernick has more than proven he's a capable starting QB in the NFL. When the Niners destroyed that roster and left him (and the subsequent QB's) with nothing and then tried to turn him into a pocket passing QB he struggled to put up good stats. That's not really a secret. He was a good QB, and he is being persecuted. There's really no debate around that.

What is happening to Kaepernick is not some mass blacklisting unparalleled in the NFL.  If Tom Brady knelt during the anthem, he'd have a job.  If Aaron Rodgers knelt, he'd have a job.  If Russel Wilson, Deshaun Watson, Carson Wentz, Derek Carr, Cam Newton or any good QB knelt during the anthem, they'd have a job. 

They've already proven your first statement false, but also Kaepernick wasn't a franchise QB, especially after Harbaugh left. Every single other guy there is. You'd have to group Kaepernick in with guys like Case Keenum, Teddy Bridgewater, etc. -- guys who are probably league-average starting QB's.

Players and fans need to realize that there is a Distraction/Talent comparison.  TO was wildly talented, wildly distracting.  He kept his job.  Colin Kaepernick is wildly distracting, average at best.  He's not being persecuted for his beliefs or his protesting.  He's being persecuted because his protesting to talent level is not conducive to 50% of the country, and 50% of nearly every fanbase. 

How much of his "distraction" persona was because of the actual act of kneeling, and how much of it was because once he was released by the Niners, no team would touch him? That's the question here. 

That's the way the NFL works.  That's the way the NFL worked.  That's the way the NFL will always work.  The bottom line is money.  It's why Amy Schumer movies bomb, it's why Jennifer Lawrence movies are making less and less money with each consecutive release, and it's why Wonder Woman broke records.  If you are an entertainer and you open your mouth, regardless of which side of the political spectrum comes out, you're going to alienate fans, which alienates studios or teams or bosses due to the lost revenue from those fans. 

If you have talent, teams have proven they don't care what you say or do as long as they agree with it. Cowboys had no issue signing Greg Hardy despite the evidence against him. Raiders had no problem signing Aldon Smith despite his troubles. Giants same thing with Josh Brown. Browns same thing with Josh Gordon. Suddenly with Kaepernick, the talent he displayed early on in his career was viewed to just have evaporated and literally nobody was willing to look into the context of what changed in the organization during that period? They lost their head coach, running back, offensive line, receivers, coordinators, and defense - yet somehow when Kaepernick's play also declined it was just due to him sucking and never being good? You've got to be kidding me!

Some people understand it and shut up not because they don't want to speak up for their ideals, but because they realize the benefits to not alienating 50% of their potential revenue source. 

I don't get why people still argue over Kaepernick. 

 

[MacReady]

Uh oh... Before I respond to everything else, you said the Niners released Kaepernick.  Turns out that's the narrative being hinted at, but it's not true.  Colin Kaepernick opted out of his contract.  People seem to forget that when they bring up collusion and all that.  Maybe Kaepernick should be a co-defendant to his collusion case considering not even HE was willing to play for the Niners. 

[MacReady]

Just now, Darth Pees said:

1. How often do players right now get asked about kneeling, charity events, etc. etc. that aren't football questions? Happens all the time.

2. I think Kaepernick has more than proven he's a capable starting QB in the NFL.

3/4. Comparing Kaepernick to Bridgewater/Keenum.  No team would touch him after he was released. 

5. If you have talent, teams have proven they don't care what you say or do as long as they agree with it. Cowboys had no issue signing Greg Hardy despite the evidence against him. Raiders had no problem signing Aldon Smith despite his troubles.

1. How many people were asked about kneeling before Kaepernick started kneeling? 

2. Is he a capable starting QB compared to the other 32 NFL teams starting QB's?  He's a clear upgrade to how many starting quarterbacks right now?  Consider potential in your answer.  He's not starting over any of the first round QBs taken this year.  That leaves you with the Dolphins.  Kaepernick praised Fidel Castro.  Literally.  I'm not making that up.  The Dolphins aren't signing him.  That leaves maybe Jameis Winston.  What other team is he a better starter for?  This is Colin-Never-Over-21-touchdowns-in-a-season-kaepernick.  Jimmy Garroppolo, Mitch Trubisky, Deshaun Watson.  Those are the only three projected starting quarterbacks in the league (other than high first round rookies) who have never thrown 22 touchdowns or more in a season.  Think a team is bringing Kaepernick in instead of those guys? 

3/4. Like I said, how many of those average quarterbacks provides the level of distraction Kaepernick does?  It's literally what I said.  Kaepernick's talent/distraction ratio is out of signing parameters.  If Bridgewater knelt, no job.  If Keenum knelt, no job.  And it's not just about kneeling.  Lest we forget he was about to be signed by the Ravens before his girlfriend posted a wildly racist tweet about a Baltimore legend and the Baltimore owner.  Not exactly endearing himself there.  It's not just about his kneeling, it's about the fact that he acts like he's some victim and some downtrodden persecuted person.  He just happens to be a multimillionaire.  He's a cancerous, whining personality.  Also, he was not released.  He opted out of his contract.  He released himself.  No team touching him is also false.  Ravens were about to sign him.  Kaepernick said he would not kneel anymore.  Seahawks bring him in for a visit.  He says he would kneel.  He's a liar.  Kaepernick is not being persecuted for kneeling alone.  He's being persecuted because he has a victim mentality and acts like the world is unfair to him.  He has a holier-than-thou attitude.  He went to Egypt and praised Egypt in comparison to the United States saying that Egypt doesn't have as bad a history as the United States.  Lol.  Egypt has rampant human rights violations to this day.  He's an idiot and a mouth breather not because he protests, but because he's an idiot and a mouth breather.

Egypt right now:

Quote

Authorities have effectively banned protests and freedom of expression, imprisoned its opponents, usually after unfair trials, outlawed the Muslim Brotherhood, and expanded its anti-terrorism powers. Torture, forced disappearances, and deaths in custody are not rare occurrences.

5. The Cowboys had nobody and nobody as a pass rusher.  Same with the Raiders.  Neither of those players, or any other example you can think up, were told, "Keep doing drugs, shooting guns, announcing bombs at airports, beating your significant other."  They were signed under the explicit direction of, "Cut it out or you do not have a spot on this team." 

[Thelonebillsfan]

Star players should sit out, what's happened to Reid and Kaep is wrong.

 

But it'll be a cold day in hell before I believe a tweet from Talcum X.

[MacReady]

2 minutes ago, Thelonebillsfan said:

Star players should sit out, what's happened to Reid and Kaep is wrong.

Reid I could see.  Kaepernick I cannot.  Reid's girlfriend hasn't insulted an owner.  Reid hasn't said he'll stop only to change his mind.  Reid hasn't praised Fidel Castro.  Reid hasn't suggested Egypt is a better country for human rights than America.  Kaepernick... can't say the same.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, HorizontoZenith said:

1. How many people were asked about kneeling before Kaepernick started kneeling? 

The more apt question would be how many players were asked about political or social issues before Kaepernick started kneeling, and to that I have no idea. 

2. Is he a capable starting QB compared to the other 32 NFL teams starting QB's? 

He was, yes.

He's a clear upgrade to how many starting quarterbacks right now? 

Right now I don't know, because he hasn't played in two years. But a couple of years ago he was at least the 20th-24th best starting QB.

Consider potential in your answer.  He's not starting over any of the first round QBs taken this year.  That leaves you with the Dolphins.  Kaepernick praised Fidel Castro.  Literally.  I'm not making that up.  The Dolphins aren't signing him.  That leaves maybe Jameis Winston.  What other team is he a better starter for?  This is Colin-Never-Over-21-touchdowns-in-a-season-kaepernick.  Jimmy Garroppolo, Mitch Trubisky, Deshaun Watson.  Those are the only three projected starting quarterbacks in the league (other than high first round rookies) who have never thrown 22 touchdowns or more in a season.  Think a team is bringing Kaepernick in instead of those guys? 

3/4. Like I said, how many of those average quarterbacks provides the level of distraction Kaepernick does? 

Again, I've already pointed out that his teammates during this period of time absolutely refuted that Kaepernick was a distraction. The only people who thought he was were the media and fans, not his actual teammates.

It's literally what I said.  Kaepernick's talent/distraction ratio is out of signing parameters.  If Bridgewater knelt, no job.  If Keenum knelt, no job. And it's not just about kneeling.  Lest we forget he was about to be signed by the Ravens before his girlfriend posted a wildly racist tweet about a Baltimore legend and the Baltimore owner. 

This was only speculated by Ray Lewis and not confirmed by anyone else. The entire signing of Kaepernick was dependent on Flacco's injury and how severe it was. The more reasonable explanation here was that Flacco wasn't going to miss any time, so we didn't need Kaepernick.

Not exactly endearing himself there.  It's not just about his kneeling, it's about the fact that he acts like he's some victim and some downtrodden persecuted person. 

His collusion case is proving he's right, though.

He just happens to be a multimillionaire.  He's a cancerous, whining personality. 

The second sentence here is entirely false.

Also, he was not released.  He opted out of his contract.  He released himself. 

I am well aware of that, but the fact remains he was released. He wanted a clean start somewhere else with a team that wasn't trying to turn him into a pocket passer while going down the drain like SF was.

No team touching him is also false.  Ravens were about to sign him. 

No we weren't. Furthermore, no team touching him is literally the entire basis of his collusion case, which will be determined in the future.

Kaepernick said he would not kneel anymore.  Seahawks bring him in for a visit.  He says he would kneel.  He's a liar. 

I mean, that's not at all how that happened, but okay. He also never said he was not going to kneel. It's all disputed on what exactly went down, but we know the Seahawks asked Kaepernick what his plan was for kneeling and he didn't have one. We also know they offered him the minimum as a backup, but Pete Carroll said repeatedly they view him as a starter and that's why they didn't go for him. I don't know what the truth is, but it is certainly not what you described above.

Kaepernick is not being persecuted for kneeling alone.  He's being persecuted because he has a victim mentality and acts like the world is unfair to him.  He has a holier-than-thou attitude.  He went to Egypt and praised Egypt in comparison to the United States saying that Egypt doesn't have as bad a history as the United States.  Lol.  Egypt has rampant human rights violations to this day.  He's an idiot and a mouth breather not because he protests, but because he's an idiot and a mouth breather.

You're free to call him whatever you'd like, just know it doesn't make your points any stronger.

5. The Cowboys had nobody and nobody as a pass rusher.  Same with the Raiders.  Neither of those players, or any other example you can think up, were told, "Keep doing drugs, shooting guns, announcing bombs at airports, beating your significant other."  They were signed under the explicit direction of, "Cut it out or you do not have a spot on this team." 

Those players have all broken the law, some repeatedly, and were given contracts with teams just to see if they could turn it around and be good players. Hell, some of those teams still employ people who regularly break the law or get suspended. Vontaze Burfict is still employed. Adam Jones played forever despite repeatedly breaking the law and being a distraction. Kaepernick hasn't broken any laws, hasn't violated any NFL rules and yet he's viewed as toxic waste hazard? Again, give me a break.

 

[MacReady]

Just now, Darth Pees said:

Again, I've already pointed out that his teammates during this period of time absolutely refuted that Kaepernick was a distraction. The only people who thought he was were the media and fans, not his actual teammates.

And what about his coach?  What about the team's owner? 

Quote

This was only speculated by Ray Lewis and not confirmed by anyone else.

No, this wasn't just speculated.  She literally posted the picture that I won't post here.  It's not speculation when it can be proven with visual evidence.  Speculation as to whether it factored in... Lol.  You think you'd get a job if your girlfriend started insulting your boss during the hiring process? 

Quote

No we weren't. Furthermore, no team touching him is literally the entire basis of his collusion case, which will be determined in the future.

Ask me and he doesn't have much of a case when he opted out of one team, was talking with another team before his girlfriend insulted the owner, and was talking to a third team before he went back on his own word. 

Quote

Those players have all broken the law, some repeatedly, and were given contracts with teams just to see if they could turn it around and be good players. Hell, some of those teams still employ people who regularly break the law or get suspended. Vontaze Burfict is still employed. Adam Jones played forever despite repeatedly breaking the law and being a distraction. Kaepernick hasn't broken any laws, hasn't violated any NFL rules and yet he's viewed as toxic waste hazard? Again, give me a break.

Those players also aren't quarterbacks meant to lead the team.  None of those players insulted an owner.  None of those players, as sad as it is, turn off 50% of their fanbase.  Do I need to go over again how it's about money?  You might get 10 fans stop supporting the Bengals for Burfict.  You might get 10,000 fans stop supporting a team for Kaepernick.  I've given you plenty of breaks.  You just can't accept or understand the fact that it's about owners not wanting to turn away up to 50% of their fanbase. 

How is this confusing? 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, HorizontoZenith said:

And what about his coach?  What about the team's owner? 

I believe Harbaugh also defended Kaepernick.

No, this wasn't just speculated.  She literally posted the picture that I won't post here.  It's not speculation when it can be proven with visual evidence.  Speculation as to whether it factored in... Lol.  You think you'd get a job if your girlfriend started insulting your boss during the hiring process? 

I'm talking about you saying he wasn't signed by the Ravens because of that tweet. The only person who said that is Ray Lewis.

Ask me and he doesn't have much of a case when he opted out of one team, was talking with another team before his girlfriend insulted the owner, and was talking to a third team before he went back on his own word. 

It's crazy how I've already proven that your last statement is false and your 2nd statement is misleading (you keep insinuating he wasn't signed because of that tweet) and yet you just keep repeating it as if they're facts. Colin wanted a fresh start but no team would even consider signing him for an extended period of time until two teams almost maybe kind of wanted him to be a backup, and now his collusion case is proving that teams viewed him a starter but nobody even kicked the tires on him? And you're just over here like "Yeah that seems plausible to me!"....? Seriously?

Those players also aren't quarterbacks meant to lead the team.  None of those players insulted an owner.  None of those players, as sad as it is, turn off 50% of their fanbase.  Do I need to go over again how it's about money?  You might get 10 fans stop supporting the Bengals for Burfict.  You might get 10,000 fans stop supporting a team for Kaepernick.  I've given you plenty of breaks.  You just can't accept or understand the fact that it's about owners not wanting to turn away up to 50% of their fanbase. 

50% of the fanbase? lol you're just making stuff up now out of thin air. I wonder how many Eagles fans stopped watching because they signed Michael Vick to lead their team. Wait a minute...nobody cared because he won games? Weird. I wonder if you could've tested the same theory with Kaepernick and a competent roster of actual NFL pass catchers who aren't 35 years old? All that matters is winning. If a team signed Kaepernick and he was winning games, nobody would care.

How is this confusing? 

 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

However, with all of this being said, I feel like I'm going way off topic.

The bottom line here, IMO is the following:

1. No "star players" are going to sit out.

2. Shaun King prevents people from calling him a liar by saying these players are "considering" sitting out, which means literally nothing at this point. I'm sure they're also all considering retirement as well.

3. There's no chance in hell they're also going to get 25% of the entire NFL to sit out with them considering most NFL players need the money.

Shaun King represents everything wrong with everything.

[packfanfb]

Clickbait, like 99% of Shaun King's other posts. Guy couldn't be objective if someone paid him to be. 

[MacReady]

Just now, Darth Pees said:

 

Harbaugh defended Kaepernick after Harbaugh wasn't coaching Kaepernick.  Compelling evidence. 

Yes or no, do you believe that the Ravens owner didn't consider Kaepernick's girlfriend blatantly insulting him when deciding whether or not to sign Kaepernick?  You have proven nothing.  Anybody without bias could see that something like that would impact an owner not signing somebody.

And yes, 50%. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2018/05/23/poll-53-percent-of-americans-say-its-never-appropriate-to-kneel-during-the-national-anthem/?utm_term=.ef34e9143638

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/05/25/poll-nfl-fans-overwhelmingly-support-leagues-national-anthem-policy/23443820/

Literally every single poll shows that 50% or more of the NFL's fanbase does not like kneeling.  How is that hard to comprehend?  Where is the disconnect here?  What are you incapable of understanding about owners not wanting to offend 50% of their fanbase?  I literally don't know how you can be confused about that. 

[Vikes_Bolts1228]

10 hours ago, TomRalph said:

I doubt Kaepernick would play for those salaries. 

 

No, he won't.

He's much better off out of the league and being a "martyr" with the "Poor Kaepernick" crowd and the magazine covers than he would be making slightly above the vet's minimum.

[sp6488]

Shaun King has been having a pretty terrible week with respect to credibility.

This honestly shouldn't be counted as "news."