Most complete back in NFL history

[Thomas5737]

31 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Gurley was playing on the worst offense in the NFL. It was obvious to anyone who watched him what a threat he was in the passing game. McVay recognized that and used it. Don't try to hide behind this weak BS. We saw what Gurley could do last year. Zeke hasn't shown that ability. If Zeke ever does, then we can talk about it. We don't need to engage in willful ignorance to make your incorrect opinions plausible.

Here's the perfect example of it:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000714053/Todd-Gurley-makes-one-handed-catch-and-run-for-33-yards

Gurley did that while playing for Fisher. Yet, Fisher's idiots never thought it was a good idea to use him as a major passing game weapon. That's the difference between McVay and a dinosaur like Fisher. He uses offensive players to their full potential.

Yes, they do.

You have to rely on invoking the Jeff Fisher era to make your weak comparisons work. Todd Gurley showed receiving ability in 2017 that Zeke has never come close to showing. Until he does, there is no comparison.

No, Gurley proved last year that he can be an elite receiving back. Zeke has never shown that. Zeke has never shown the ability to do all of the things Gurley did last year as a receiver. You're assuming Zeke has potential for something he has never shown. 

EDIT: In fact, why does Zeke not have better passing game numbers? You're claiming he's a great receiving HB. Why doesn't Dallas target him often? Their OC, Scott Linehan, is known for targeting his HBs in the passing game. Steven Jackson had 90 receptions in 2006 while playing for Linehan. Linehan targeted Jahvid Best, Reggie Bush, and Joique Bell a lot in Detroit. Why is Zeke not getting the same treatment?

I'm done with ya because you keep being a db. You need to work on your communication skills and be more civil.

[jrry32]

2 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

I'm done with ya because you keep being a db. You need to work on your communication skills and be more civil.

I am what I am. But that doesn't change the implausibility of your argument. An OC known for targeting his HBs in the passing game isn't targeting Zeke despite your insistence that he's as good as one of the best pass-catching HBs in the NFL in 2017.

[Soko]

7 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Which highlights the silliness of getting upset when people choose to talk about NFL HBs who COULD be in the conversation in the future. This site is called FootballsFUTURE. 

Yeah, except that isn’t the thread.

On 5/28/2018 at 6:21 PM, Kiwibrown said:

How was the most complete back in NFL history?

Speed, power, receiving? 

i thought of AP at his best he was extremely fast and powerful but never a great receiver 

Last time I checked, someone can’t “was” be the most complete back in NFL history. Nor can a potential future be a part of actual, current recorded history. 

Just because the entire website is called “football’s future”, doesn’t mean every post and every thread has to talk about it. You know that, you’re just choosing to fight on this lame hill to pimp your guy some more. We’ve all been there. 

[jrry32]

1 minute ago, Yin-Yang said:

Yeah, except that isn’t the thread.

Last time I checked, someone can’t “was” be the most complete back in NFL history. Nor can a potential future be a part of actual, current recorded history. 

Just because the entire website is called “football’s future”, doesn’t mean every and every thread has to do it. You know that, you’re just choosing to fight on this lame hill to pimp your guy some more. We’ve all been there. 

It makes things more interesting than answering a question that is pretty darn obvious. Best HB in history is Brown. Most complete HB in history is Tomlinson or Payton. Best receiving HB in history is Faulk. Most elusive HB in history is Sanders. The answers are all obvious. It's the off-season. Talking about whether or not Gurley has the ability to be in the conversation some day is a lot more interesting than posting an obvious answer. 

[Soko]

25 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

It makes things more interesting than answering a question that is pretty darn obvious. Best HB in history is Brown. Most complete HB in history is Tomlinson or Payton. Best receiving HB in history is Faulk. Most elusive HB in history is Sanders. The answers are all obvious. It's the off-season. Talking about whether or not Gurley has the ability to be in the conversation some day is a lot more interesting than posting an obvious answer. 

So instead of ignoring the boring discussion about other backs that has been going on (and there has been plenty) and derailing this thread, you could make a thread talking about that guy on your team. Makes more sense to do that rather than go into a thread, declare it boring, and try to change the topic. 

Shrug. 

 

 

[jrry32]

2 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

So instead of ignoring the boring discussion about other backs that (and there has been plenty) and derailing this thread, you could make a thread talking about that guy on your team. Makes more sense to do that rather than go into a thread, declare it boring, and try to change the topic. 

Shrug. 

So instead of putting a discussion of whether Gurley could possibly enter the conversation for greatest all-around HB in a thread discussing the greatest all-around HBs, I should make a separate thread topic because . . . .

You can just ignore the posts. That's always an option. Nobody is making you read the conversation.

[Soko]

Just now, jrry32 said:

So instead of putting a discussion of whether Gurley could possibly enter the conversation for greatest all-around HB in a thread discussing the greatest all-around HBs, I should make a separate thread topic because . . . .

You can just ignore the posts. That's always an option. Nobody is making you read the conversation.

Because...Gurley doesn’t fit the criteria for thread? Should I enter a “top 5 QB of all time” discussion and turn it into “Wentz could really be here down the road, guys” discussion? 

I guess so, because the discussion beforehand was too boring. 

FWIW, I go through this thread because I like hearing some of the old heads talk about players I haven’t seen or don’t remember. But the website has the word “future” in it so there must be some backdoor licensing agreement where we’re liable to bring up the potential of a player in a thread that pretty obviously has the word “history” written all over it.

[jrry32]

24 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Because...Gurley doesn’t fit the criteria for thread? Should I enter a “top 5 QB of all time” discussion and turn it into “Wentz could really be here down the road, guys” discussion? 

I guess so, because the discussion beforehand was too boring. 

FWIW, I go through this thread because I like hearing some of the old heads talk about players I haven’t seen or don’t remember. But the website has the word “future” in it so there must be some backdoor licensing agreement where we’re liable to bring up the potential of a player in a thread that pretty obviously has the word “history” written all over it.

Sure. Have at it.

[Hunter2_1]

Another classic from Jrry 

[JAF-N72EX]

@jrry32 As far as Gurley is concerned. He has no reason to be in this discussion, whatsoever. I don't care what the context of the meaning behind it is. None of the greatest "complete" backs ever have ever had as of a poor season like he had in his sophomore year.

While he is, without a doubt, a good running back. His lackluster season in 2016 cannot be ignored. Nor can it be blamed solely on poor coaching under Fisher either. CJ had one of the best single-seasons by a RB in history in 2009 when he broke Marshall Faulk's record for the most YFS with 2,509 yards and did it while playing the same Head Coach, Jeff Fisher.

While Fisher is a terrible coach and has been for years (even prior to his stint with the Rams AND Titans), there are plenty of RB's(and players in general) over the years who have still produced in minimal conditions with a terrible staff and/or poor play-calling but still maintained. 

-- Bell has had Haley as an OC for his entire career and has still produced. And while he may be a better coach than Fisher - don't tell me that he is a good play-caller either.
-- Johnson still produced in 2016 under Arians and a terrible Goodwin. 
-- CJ produced under Fisher and 3 different OC's(including former Bears OC - Logains) who decided to use CJ to get down field on every drive but then stop giving him the ball in the red-zone and give his touches to LenWhale. 
--Forte still produced while playing in one of the worst and most incompetent offenses in history under 4 different OC's - including bum-*** Ron Turner for the majority - , a below average QB(yes - I'm talking to you Cutler) and no OL or receivers. The only time he fell off even slightly was in his sophomore year after receiving 380 touches in his rookie year, so it was expected. And even then - efficiency wise -  it wasn't as bad as Gurley's.  

^^Just to give an example. Again, plenty of players succeed under poor coaching. Derek Carr had his best season under JDR for christ sakes. 

Furthermore, while there are certainly times where a player's deficiency and/or downfall in production can be easily attributed to poor coaching and play-calling. There are also times where it's the players themselves who are 100% at fault.

In Gurley's case, are you just going to ignore the pre-season in 2016 when his own lineman were even claiming that he wasn't on the same page? Now, they both(Gurley and OL) went back and forth on blame through the media so there's no telling who the REAL blame for that was. But in the scheme of things, not getting on the same page with the guys who ultimately "pave the way" for you and then putting up the lackluster numbers that he did vs his rookie year afterwards, kind of speaks for itself. 

To further highlight both points thus far and to also tackle your negative point about Zeke - and why he is not targeted. Consider this before you judge another back about responsibilities.

The Rams offense was starting a raw 21 year old QB with obvious holes at skill positions. So how do you take the pressure off of him? You use the same star play-maker you had a year ago on 1st down and let him make something happen so that Goff is put into better 2nd and 3rd down situations and doesn't feel pressured into having to make something out of nothing. 

And that's exactly what they tried to do. They ran the ball 54% of the time(219 plays) on first down and passed the ball 46% of the time (189 plays). They held up their end.

The problem with this plan was that they were expecting more out of Gurley and efficiency wise he didn't come through on his end.

Sure he had 617 yards on first down plays, but it took him 170 carries to do it(3.6 ards per carry), and playing behind as much they were, that put Goff and the offense in a bind as a whole.

Point is, Gurley is no near worthy of being in this discussion. Not hypothetically, potentially or any other way you wanna spin it. Now, last season. He did show potential. But potential doesn't mean crap until you show that you can do it on a consistent basis. 

[JAF-N72EX]

I thought I posted my opinion on the OP's thread......I guess not.

Anyways, like it's been said, it's either Payton or LT.  

[jrry32]

8 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

@jrry32 As far as Gurley is concerned. He has no reason to be in this discussion, whatsoever. I don't care what the context of the meaning behind it is. None of the greatest "complete" backs ever have ever had as of a poor season like he had in his sophomore year.While he is, without a doubt, a good running back. 

His lackluster season in 2016 cannot be ignored. Nor can it be blamed solely on poor coaching under Fisher either. CJ had one of the best single-seasons by a RB in history in 2009 when he broke Marshall Faulk's record for the most YFS with 2,509 yards and did it while playing the same Head Coach, Jeff Fisher.

Chris Johnson played for Jeff Fisher back when Mike Munchak was his OL Coach. That's a totally different situation. Munchak is the best in the game. The Titans consistently had quality to great OLs during that time. The Rams were no so blessed under Fisher, and it showed. And that's without mentioning the completely incompetent OC, Rob Boras.

Quote

 

While Fisher is a terrible coach and has been for years (even prior to his stint with the Rams AND Titans), there are plenty of RB's(and players in general) over the years who have still produced in minimal conditions with a terrible staff and/or poor play-calling but still maintained. 

-- Bell has had Haley as an OC for his entire career and has still produced. And while he may be a better coach than Fisher - don't tell me that he is a good play-caller either.
-- Johnson still produced in 2016 under Arians and a terrible Goodwin. 
-- CJ produced under Fisher and 3 different OC's(including former Bears OC - Logains) who decided to use CJ to get down field on every drive but then stop giving him the ball in the red-zone and give his touches to LenWhale. 
--Forte still produced while playing in one of the worst and most incompetent offenses in history under 4 different OC's - including bum-*** Ron Turner for the majority - , a below average QB(yes - I'm talking to you Cutler) and no OL or receivers. The only time he fell off even slightly was in his sophomore year after receiving 380 touches in his rookie year, so it was expected. And even then - efficiency wise -  it wasn't as bad as Gurley's.  

^^Just to give an example. Again, plenty of players succeed under poor coaching. Derek Carr had his best season under JDR for christ sakes. 

 

You want to compare the team of Todd Haley and Mike Munchak to Fisher's offensive group? Dude, get out of here.

Matt Forte averaged 3.6 yards per carry in his second season in the NFL, so he's a quite poor example to use.

Quote

 

Furthermore, while there are certainly times where a player's deficiency and/or downfall in production can be easily attributed to poor coaching and play-calling. There are also times where it's the players themselves who are 100% at fault.

In Gurley's case, are you just going to ignore the pre-season in 2016 when his own lineman were even claiming that he wasn't on the same page? Now, they both(Gurley and OL) went back and forth on blame through the media so there's no telling who the REAL blame for that was. But in the scheme of things, not getting on the same page with the guys who ultimately "pave the way" for you and then putting up the lackluster numbers that he did vs his rookie year afterwards, kind of speaks for itself. 

 

I watched the 2016 Rams. I watched every single atrocious game. Gurley wasn't on the same page as his OLs. His OLs weren't on the same page with each other. The TEs weren't on the same page with anyone. It was a total disaster. The OL was the biggest disaster on the team. They were never in sync. 

I don't need to concern myself with who was at fault. It became quite obvious in 2017 who was at fault. The Rams hired an offensive genius, a great OL Coach, and brought in a couple veterans to lead the OL. The OL was suddenly in sync, and Gurley was suddenly playing incredible football. 

[ET80]

15 hours ago, jrry32 said:

You can just ignore the posts.

Or, you can stick to the topic at hand.

- ET

[Nabbs4u]

9 minutes ago, EliteTexan80 said:

Or, you can stick to the topic at hand.

- ET

Shhhh ET, You can't garner attention and or feed your agenda that way. It's to be expected. ?

[jrry32]

22 minutes ago, EliteTexan80 said:

Or, you can stick to the topic at hand.

- ET

Okay. Todd Gurley is the most complete back in NFL history. Come at me.