mse326 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Another guy derailed by injuries was Juan Martin del Potro. At least he got one major victory before they took their toll. JMD is a whole different level. Long term injury. Come back and get right to the point of competing with the top guys again. Significant injury again. Rinse Repeat. Especially given that it is the wrist it is miraculous how often he got back towards the top and shows what immense talent he had. He was the next gen guy that actually would have supplanted or at least joined the big 4 to make it 5. He wouldn't have just been a road block to get through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, mse326 said: JMD is a whole different level. Long term injury. Come back and get right to the point of competing with the top guys again. Significant injury again. Rinse Repeat. Especially given that it is the wrist it is miraculous how often he got back towards the top and shows what immense talent he had. He was the next gen guy that actually would have supplanted or at least joined the big 4 to make it 5. He wouldn't have just been a road block to get through. Oh yeah, JMDP had superstar level skill. He was better than Andy Murray IMO. I just can't get around to calling it a "big 4" to include Murray when he has as many majors as Stan Wawrinka lol. He was good but he wasn't near the Big 3. He was like a step above David Ferrer, the ultimate road block guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Oh yeah, JMDP had superstar level skill. He was better than Andy Murray IMO. I just can't get around to calling it a "big 4" to include Murray when he has as many majors as Stan Wawrinka lol. He was good but he wasn't near the Big 3. He was like a step above David Ferrer, the ultimate road block guy. I struggle with Murray because the wins disparity but ultimately I think he belongs. No one else was beating him really, it was those 4. He has pretty decent records against the other 3 at least compared to others (11-14 against Fed, 7-17 against Nadal but that is with 2-7 on Clay so 5-10 on other surfaces, 11-25 against Djokovic). That is the most losses for all of them against a single opponent other than the other 2. Comparing him to Wawrinka because of the same amount of majors is pretty narrow in scope. He has 11 GS finals to Stans 4. 10 more SFs to Stans 5. Murray also has a Gold Medal in singles and a Year end Championship. 46 total wins to Stans 16, 22 more finals to Stans 13. 14 ATP 1000 wins to Stans 1. Is he on the level of those 3? No. But absolutely was the only one really competing with them and won significantly more than any other player. He has 11 total appearances in GS finals that is tied for 11th all time. 21 Semifinal appearances is 9th all time. I just can't call him simply a road block, even a great road block, for those 3. He belongs with them even if not quite as good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, mse326 said: I struggle with Murray because the wins disparity but ultimately I think he belongs. No one else was beating him really, it was those 4. He has pretty decent records against the other 3 at least compared to others (11-14 against Fed, 7-17 against Nadal but that is with 2-7 on Clay so 5-10 on other surfaces, 11-25 against Djokovic). That is the most losses for all of them against a single opponent other than the other 2. Comparing him to Wawrinka because of the same amount of majors is pretty narrow in scope. He has 11 GS finals to Stans 4. 10 more SFs to Stans 5. Murray also has a Gold Medal in singles and a Year end Championship. 46 total wins to Stans 16, 22 more finals to Stans 13. 14 ATP 1000 wins to Stans 1. Is he on the level of those 3? No. But absolutely was the only one really competing with them and won significantly more than any other player. He has 11 total appearances in GS finals that is tied for 11th all time. 21 Semifinal appearances is 9th all time. I just can't call him simply a road block, even a great road block, for those 3. He belongs with them even if not quite as good. Oh, I wasn't comparing him to Stan. It was meant to show why I couldn't compared him to the Big 3. He was definitely alone in his own 2nd tier. Then you have the Stan's of the world who are the best of the rest and then the guys who were good enough to go go deep consistently but never good enough to win in guys like Ferrer and Berdych. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 It's a hard argument, because during Andy's prime, he absolutely belonged in that Big 4. But his prime is just way shorter now than the other 3, so in a career hindsight, it's hard to place him there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, JBURGE said: It's a hard argument, because during Andy's prime, he absolutely belonged in that Big 4. But his prime is just way shorter now than the other 3, so in a career hindsight, it's hard to place him there. Even during, he wasn't on their level. As beekay said, he was alone as the clear 4. He could definitely challenge them and beat them more than anyone else (and as you stated his consistency compared to the rest of the top 10 players at the time, like Wawrinka, was on another level), but he wasn't as good as the top 3. Those top 3 were equals who could beat each other at any given time (besides clay). It wasn't a surprise who would win among them. But if Murray won over any of the 3, it was a clear upset. I was a huge JMDP fan. I'm on record stating he would have supplanted Murray as #4 and truly challenged the 3 GOATS more consistently. Just a shame what happened to him. Edited February 1, 2020 by seminoles1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Good win for Kenin last night. If only even 1 American man could at least contend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Great win by Kenin. Holding at 0-40 in the third the way she did showed great mental toughness that is very exciting for ability to maintain this and not shrink under the new spotlight. The future of American women's tennis looks really good. There was a generation missing after Serena but she has been able to stay at the top so long it didn't matter. Keys and Stephens came along to be the players that are now in their "prime" years that can compete, but the next gen looks great. Kenin has improved every year on tour and now this win cements her as a contender. Anisimova showed last year what she is capable of. CiCi Bellis is coming off a long injury but played well enough to say the lost development won't be a big issue. And of course Coco Gauff. And all are 21 and under. It has been a long time since the US has had that bright a future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDez Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 I’m trying to enjoy this before the big-3 hit the skids. Men’s tennis will pretty much be over at that point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Thiem gave Djokovic a hell of a battle. Wish he could have finished him off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 19 hours ago, DirtyDez said: I’m trying to enjoy this before the big-3 hit the skids. Men’s tennis will pretty much be over at that point. Same. I prefer Federer, but I really like all 3. I want and think it's perfectly fitting of they all end up with the same amount of slams. As of now though, I think Federer ends in 3rd. That's why him blowing Wimbledon will end up stinging even more. Had he held on I think 21 for all 3 would have been a real possibility (though I'm sure Djokovic would have played as long as possible to break a tie). At this rate I think it ends up: Djokovic with 23. He's still the best player in the world on hard and grass courts. 3 slams a year on those surfaces and he's already at 17. Nadal with 22. 2 more French Opens and 1 more epic run at either Wimbledon or the US Open. Something about Australia just doesn't agree with this man. Federer with 20. I think he's done. If someone else beats Djokovic (and probably needs someone to beat Nadal as well) then maybe, but I'm just not seeing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 19 minutes ago, seminoles1 said: Thiem gave Djokovic a hell of a battle. Wish he could have finished him off. I'm watching a replay, and I don't understand why players get so upset when called for time violations. You know the rules and they've been in place for years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Djokovic is the only of the big three that has a shot at every major. His consistency is unmatched when he's on his game. If he didn't choke so many times against inferior competition in the finals, he would have a legitimate shot to end with 25 majors. Fed's last real shot at winning it all will come out this year's Wimbledon. Nadal was playing good tennis this tournament but Thiem was just a bit better. I mean we saw him push Djokovic to the limit today so no shame in that loss. Wouldn't be surprised if Nadal gets two majors himself this year. He's played well at every major now for a good bit. No doubt all three of these guys are GOATs in their own right. Joker is the most hated of the three but will end up with a winning record against both Nadal/Federer while having the most majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Man, I'm so glad I got to watch that charity match between Fed and Nadal. So damn fun. They showed just how ridiculously good they were. I wish they played that loose during majors. They'd never lose (not literal, obviously). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agarcia34 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Indian Wells cancelled due to the virus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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