Should More Teams Use 2 RB Sets?

[the lone star]

Should More Teams Use 2 RB Sets?

I ask because I like what I've seen from these sets, and with RBs becoming more versatile, it might not be a bad idea, especially since most teams have a pass-catching specialist now, in addition to power backs, speed backs, finesse backs, etc..

I say yes, but of course that means taking a WR or a TE off the field. But even so, you can audible and put 1 or both RBs on the LOS as a WR. I've seen good things when that happens with the likes of the Pats and Saints. Seahawks did it once with Lynch that I remember it turned into a huge gain. My Cowboys rarely ever move a RB from the backfield to the LOS as a WR, but when they have, I've liked the results.

For what it's worth, I do like how the Panthers, Browns, and Falcons have used weapons like CMC, Duke Johnson, and Tevin Coleman in the passing game.

Just food for thought.

[cddolphin]

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/2016-offensive-personnel-analysis

Data from 2016 but the most recent I could find.

Offensive Personnel Groupings
Personnel	2015 Pct	2016 Pct	Difference	2016 DVOA
11	54.7%	60.4%	+5.7%	7.5%
12	21.2%	16.9%	-4.3%	1.3%
21	8.0%	7.0%	-1.0%	-0.2%
6+ OL	3.7%	5.4%	+1.7%	-3.6%
13	3.5%	2.8%	-0.7%	8.6%
10	2.5%	2.6%	+0.1%	-15.2%
22	3.3%	1.8%	-1.5%	-5.3%
20	1.1%	1.3%	+0.2%	7.9%
Misc	1.9%	1.7%	-0.2%	22.1%

 

Looking at the DVOA, it seems to suggest 13 personnel may be the grouping to utilize more of.

13 personnel seems like a common-sense counterpoint to the more recent trends in the NFL: lighter, smaller, faster defensive personnel more suited to pass defense.

[cddolphin]

11 minutes ago, the lone star said:

For what it's worth, I do like how the Panthers, Browns, and Falcons have used weapons like CMC, Duke Johnson, and Tevin Coleman in the passing game.

The Falcons were highlighted in the above link^^ as a team that does a good job utilizing 21 personnel.

[Shanedorf]

Its getting harder and harder to use these stats because of all the variation in formations. Just tracking personnel isn't enough to really cover it

From FO:

"Before we get into things, a quick note: this is personnel data, not formation data. When David Johnson goes out wide, he's still counted as a running back. When Tavon Austin lines up in the backfield, he still counts as a wide receiver. "

 

So many teams using hybrid playmakers and moving them around and so many defenses using hybrid defenders and moving them around

Cat and mouse continues

[yrba1]

If a team can utilize it effectively the way Pederson ran the RPO, I don't see why not.

[EL Guapo]

That data probably includes a fullback. I don't know if he meant a fullback 

[cddolphin]

2 minutes ago, EL Guapo said:

That data probably includes a fullback. I don't know if he meant a fullback 

"2 RB" sets can mean either two running backs (technically "half backs"), or one traditional halfback and one traditional fullback. They aren't differentiated. 

[Danger]

30 minutes ago, cddolphin said:

"2 RB" sets can mean either two running backs (technically "half backs"), or one traditional halfback and one traditional fullback. They aren't differentiated. 

What's a fullback?

[cddolphin]

5 minutes ago, Danger said:

What's a fullback?

A runningback with a melanin deficiency

[Nabbs4u]

1 hour ago, yrba1 said:

If a team can utilize it effectively the way Pederson ran the RPO, I don't see why not.

Depends on your personnel. What TE's do you have, WR, RB's. As effective as those RPO's were last year for the Eagles it was "without" a legit 3rd down receiving RB like Sproles. Or what they hoped Rookie Donnell Pumphrey could become as a younger Sproles. However both were placed on IR. Drastically changing his approach IMO.

I have no doubt if healthy Pederson will implement more 2 RB sets this season in hopes to create mismatches. Just as he might run more 2 TE sets (Ertz/Goedert) to create they same.

Smart OC/HC who call plays find ways to stress a Defense. If it means utilizing multiple RB sets, then yes more teams will do it. If teams don't have the personnel, then No they won't. Depends on the personnel and creativity of your OC.

[Hunter2_1]

3 hours ago, cddolphin said:

 

13 personnel seems like a common-sense counterpoint to the more recent trends in the NFL: lighter, smaller, faster defensive personnel more suited to pass defense.

1 RB and 3TEs? I'd have assumed 22 to take advantage of lighter LBs etc

[cddolphin]

1 minute ago, Hunter2_1 said:

1 RB and 3TEs? I'd have assumed 22 to take advantage of lighter LBs etc

I'm just looking at the chart I posted above^^ which (according to DVOA, anyway) seems to indicate 1 RB and 3 TE is not being used often enough based on how effective of a grouping it is.

Now, the sample size is small and there's a big swing in DVOA from 2015 to 2016, so it could be statistical noise.

 

But I could see a team with the right 13 personnel finding a lot of success in the RZ (especially inside the 5) by using motion and mismatches in the pass game.

Great example:

 

[Hunter2_1]

1 minute ago, cddolphin said:

I'm just looking at the chart I posted above^^ which (according to DVOA, anyway) seems to indicate 1 RB and 3 TE is not being used often enough based on how effective of a grouping it is.

Now, the sample size is small and there's a big swing in DVOA from 2015 to 2016, so it could be statistical noise.

 

But I could see a team with the right 13 personnel finding a lot of success in the RZ (especially inside the 5) by using motion and mismatches in the pass game.

Great example:

 

Oh I see. Got ya. Miss match city. Seem to remember we used that a lot against PIT in the season opener in 2015, managing to get 3rd choice safeties matched on 6'6" TEs.

I'd like to see more teams use this too.

[tom cody]

Sure, depends mainly on talent though. 

[JaguarCrazy2832]

On 6/2/2018 at 8:13 AM, tom cody said:

Sure, depends mainly on talent though. 

Yea if you have 2 backs that are at least average-above average threats both running and passing then its not a bad tool to use but keeping your RBs fresh is also a big factor late in games