TRADE: The Eagles Acquire CB Ronald Darby from Buffalo for WR Jordan Matthews + 2018 Third-Round Pick

[Phire]

1 minute ago, BLick12 said:

Just reeks of a desperation move to me.  Seems like a lot to give up for somebody who's body of work is uncertain at best and has never has had to play as a true #1 CB.

It is a desperation move. We're desperate at CB. Look at the NFCE right now. This is a good year to try to take it. Redskins are a dumpster fire. Cowboys are all suspended. Giants are Giants.  We would be wasting a great window of opportunity by going into the year with the cornerbacks we had. 

[Phire]

And the reality is teams aren't giving up starting CBs for a sack of dog poop. 

[Hockey5djh]

1 minute ago, Broadway Joe said:

That is very true and Howie definitely wants to get rid of anything Chip Kelly. The Rowe deal was made pretty much because of Roseman's ego. We wouldn't be in this position if it wasn't for that. I hate it when players are in the dog house for no apparent reason.

My biggest concern with trading for guys and signing FA is that they are players that do not feel rivalry game or colors, do not have the leadership aspect and most of all don't care that much about winning. You knew Shady, Jackson and Maclin would bring their A-game when it came to NFC East matchups.

So just to clarify since he was brought up twice....the Rowe trade was made because of Schwartz's valuation of him and his ranking on the depth chart, not because we're jettisoning everything Chip Kelly or because of Howie's ego.

To point towards Kilty's concerns Rowe was 4th/5th on the depth chart because we had brought in guys that Schwartz liked and was familiar with such as Ron Brooks and Leodis McKelvin who so far have turned out to be busts in Philly.

[BLick12]

2 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

lol I think it's pretty fair considering he's in Buffalo now. What more proof do you need that Howie wasn't interested in resigning him? Besides, we saw a good slot receiver and 2 scrub wideouts and how that operates. A slot guy is a good compliment. Not a focal point to a good offense. And for a such a big part of our offense, he was always so average. Rarely did I see any plays that impressed me. 

That's not my point.  My point is that Howie is betting his chips on Jefferey being the guy when it is quite possible that his best longterm option has been right in front of him.  And a good slot guy can absolutely be a focal point to an offense, it all just depends on how things are schemed.  Matthews has played in 2 systems and with 3 QBs during his 3 years here and been fairly productive all things considered.  He hasn't blown us awa, by any stretch, but he was a mostly reliable slot receiver that seemed to have pretty good chemistry with Wentz.  I would've liked to have seen them get to play together for another year rather than desperately packaging him and a high pick for a guy that wasn't particularly good last year.

[Kiltman]

4 minutes ago, Broadway Joe said:

11 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

It obviously is something that over time will go away (you'd think)

But I do worry about the "my guys" mentality here sometimes

Either with Howie, as he jettisons large parts of the Chip Era fairly easily.
Most are trades we'd do again....but Eric Rowe and this have a bit of a question mark for value we gave up or reasoning.

And then you have Schwartz favoring his guys seemingly for no reason other than that he knows them and overvalues them.
(not talking about Darby, as their tenures didn't overlap)

 

The most successful team for over a decade and a half has been New England...and a key to their success is taking the guys they have and adapting to their skillsets, and tossing out all the other stuff...save for when there is a personality clash.
I just worry that we are constantly going to be trying to find a square peg for round holes...instead of just adapting and making it square holes

That is very true and Howie definitely wants to get rid of anything Chip Kelly. The Rowe deal was made pretty much because of Roseman's ego. We wouldn't be in this position if it wasn't for that. I hate it when players are in the dog house for no apparent reason.

My biggest concern with trading for guys and signing FA is that they are players that do not feel rivalry game or colors, do not have the leadership aspect and most of all don't care that much about winning. You knew Shady, Jackson and Maclin would bring their A-game when it came to NFC East matchups.

Yea I hate it too..but as a coach, I get it. Sometimes you do it for various reasons that nobody outside the building sees.

I do worry about that too...have of our team kinda feels like that.
But with Wentz in there, and some of our core you hope they set the tone for some of that stuff as they mature

[Hockey5djh]

I'm kinda with Blick here, I'd rather have traded for Darby with just draft picks rather than giving up a productive player. If you're making moves for "this year" you don't trade away a productive player because you might not resign him in the offseason

[BLick12]

3 minutes ago, Hockey5djh said:

So just to clarify since he was brought up twice....the Rowe trade was made because of Schwartz's valuation of him and his ranking on the depth chart, not because we're jettisoning everything Chip Kelly or because of Howie's ego.

To point towards Kilty's concerns Rowe was 4th/5th on the depth chart because we had brought in guys that Schwartz liked and was familiar with such as Ron Brooks and Leodis McKelvin who so far have turned out to be busts in Philly.

And Schwartz is a product of Doug Pederson who is a product of Howie Roseman.  Overruled! 

[Hockey5djh]

Just now, BLick12 said:

And Schwartz is a product of Doug Pederson who is a product of Howie Roseman.  Overruled! 

Go back to your hole Gilmore! 

[BLick12]

10 minutes ago, Phire said:

It is a desperation move. We're desperate at CB. Look at the NFCE right now. This is a good year to try to take it. Redskins are a dumpster fire. Cowboys are all suspended. Giants are Giants.  We would be wasting a great window of opportunity by going into the year with the cornerbacks we had. 

Everyone came into this season saying how far off we were.  How does 1 mediocre corner change that?

[Kiltman]

3 minutes ago, Hockey5djh said:

So just to clarify since he was brought up twice....the Rowe trade was made because of Schwartz's valuation of him and his ranking on the depth chart, not because we're jettisoning everything Chip Kelly or because of Howie's ego.

To point towards Kilty's concerns Rowe was 4th/5th on the depth chart because we had brought in guys that Schwartz liked and was familiar with such as Ron Brooks and Leodis McKelvin who so far have turned out to be busts in Philly.

It's just...you need to give it time, he's a young player at a position that takes time to adapt to in the NFL.
It just was a move I wouldn't have made with no apparent answer available.

Long run, yea it was an ok move barring Rowe becoming a superstar

But it's just a concern I have that we are constantly going to be chasing these white whales that are perfect fits for what we do, rather than getting changing our expectations and changing the scheme to fit what we can get.

[Hockey5djh]

1 minute ago, BLick12 said:

Everyone came into this season saying how far off we were.  How does 1 mediocre corner change that?

Well...One mediocre CB, one oft injured WR, one one trick pony WR who lost his trick last year, and one contract year DT.

Superb Owl.

[Phire]

5 minutes ago, Hockey5djh said:

I'm kinda with Blick here, I'd rather have traded for Darby with just draft picks rather than giving up a productive player. If you're making moves for "this year" you don't trade away a productive player because you might not resign him in the offseason

I defended Matthews in the Matthews thread along those lines. But I'm going to presume the fact we traded him means things weren't looking great behind the scenes. 

[Phire]

5 minutes ago, BLick12 said:

Everyone came into this season saying how far off we were.  How does 1 mediocre corner change that?

Because mediocre is a god send compared to what we had. And again, look at our rivals going up in flames. Circumstances have changed were in good position to win the East. Yes, one mediocre CB might be the difference. 

[Jroc04]

1 minute ago, BLick12 said:

That's not my point.  My point is that Howie is betting his chips on Jefferey being the guy when it is quite possible that his best longterm option has been right in front of him.  And a good slot guy can absolutely be a focal point to an offense, it all just depends on how things are schemed.  Matthews has played in 2 systems and with 3 QBs during his 3 years here and been fairly productive all things considered.  He hasn't blown us awa, by any stretch, but he was a mostly reliable slot receiver that seemed to have pretty good chemistry with Wentz.  I would've liked to have seen them get to play together for another year rather than desperately packaging him and a high pick for a guy that wasn't particularly good last year.

You're paying for Matthews or Alshon? Who ya got? That's what it's coming down to. 

Lets be serious, Alshon is in another realm compared to J-Matt. 

Just because Matthews could have possibly be his best long term solution, assuming Jefferey forgets how to play football, doesn't mean that's the correct move. If all went to hell this year, you still don't resign Matthews to a big deal. It's foolish. 

And I can't think of any good offense where the slot guy is the focal point. Not one. 

Reliable is a good way to describe J-Matt. You don't throw 30 million at reliable. He was gone either way. Might as well get a something before he leaves for nothing. 

Well, you make moves to get better. Sometimes you have to take risks to cash in. And this is a slight risk to cash in. Having a good CB is much more inportant than havin a reliable slot receiver. Especially at the premium he was going to get paid. Howie acted accordingly and preemptively. I applaud it. 

[Utley]

Love Darby, and am fine with the trade. I don't like giving up the 3rd, hopefully we can find a way to get a 2nd or 3rd this coming offseason. There's a reason Matthews can only play the slot. He really struggles with getting separation because he's not explosive enough. He's a good route runner, with iffy hands, who can't get separation on the outside. Let's not act like we moved an All-Pro. He's a good slot WR, nothing more, nothing less. With Agholor, at least he can create separation and play the outside, even if he has the same drop issues as Matthews.