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bigbadbuff23835

Sammy and Darby Traded. I hate Buffalo

43 posts in this topic

What i like most about these trades tho is they help us both now and in the future. We added high draft picks for the future. But we also get more productive players for the current team. As Gaines and Matthews have been more productive than Watkins and Darby.

 

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LeeEvans    20
22 minutes ago, bigbadbuff23835 said:

I don't think we are tanking at all. If you were banking on Sammy to stay healthy and Darby to return to rookie season form (probably better) then idk what to tell you. I wasn't counting on much from either of these two this season, not sure how anyone could.

Yeah I'm not sure how we markedly worse. Sammy for Jordan Matthews is a wash at worst and Darby for Gaines is a downgrade but how much is definitely up for debate and I don't think Darby was a good scheme fit.

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BillsGuy82    4

We have tremendous long term equity out of these trades. 

I see Darby and Gaines as a wash. Ronald Darby was  worse than Steph Gilmore last season. I'd be interested to see how many plays of 20+ yards Darby gave up last season?

The Watkins deal had to be done. I feel we should have gotten a bit more value but when we didn't pick up his option and his injury history every year, I'm OK with Jordan Matthews. The picks basically guarantee we get which ever QB we like and than some.

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Kiltman    94

What was Darby's biggest strength and weakness as a player?

 

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jrry32    37
2 hours ago, marshawn lynch said:

What i like most about these trades tho is they help us both now and in the future. We added high draft picks for the future. But we also get more productive players for the current team. As Gaines and Matthews have been more productive than Watkins and Darby.

 

Y'all are definitely a better scheme fit for Gaines than our new defense. It really depends on what Gaines you get. Lisfranc injuries are a big deal. Gaines was quite good in 2015 in a scheme that had some similarities to the one you will run. However, he stunk last year. I'm sure part of it was related to the injury. The question is if he'll ever fully recover.

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3 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Y'all are definitely a better scheme fit for Gaines than our new defense. It really depends on what Gaines you get. Lisfranc injuries are a big deal. Gaines was quite good in 2015 in a scheme that had some similarities to the one you will run. However, he stunk last year. I'm sure part of it was related to the injury. The question is if he'll ever fully recover.

Yeah seems a lot like Darby. Great rookie year but fell off for different reasons. Gaines because of injury and Darby just going through a sophmore slump. Hopefully both Corners are able to play better in the right schemes

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TheRealMcCoy    50
6 hours ago, LeeEvans said:

Sammy for Jordan Matthews is a wash at worst

You really overrate Matthews.

The guy is a slot that doesn't have good hands, doesn't know how to toe tap, isn't good attacking the ball in the air, not a great route runner, not good after the catch, etc.

He's a decent slot WR.

If that works for you, then fine.

I get that availability is the most important ability, but c'mon. He isn't on Watkins level talent wise.

He shouldn't demand as much money as Watkins if you want to keep him though.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

You really overrate Matthews.

The guy is a slot that doesn't have good hands, doesn't know how to toe tap, isn't good attacking the ball in the air, not a great route runner, not good after the catch, etc.

He's a decent slot WR.

If that works for you, then fine.

I get that availability is the most important ability, but c'mon. He isn't on Watkins level talent wise.

He shouldn't demand as much money as Watkins if you want to keep him though.

Talent wise. Watkins is by far more talented. Production wise Matthews outperforms Sammy. I think what he was trying to say is yes we may be giving up a talented reciever but we are gaining a player who can be expected to out produce Watkins. Which is what makes it a wash. I mean Sammy already knicked up his foot that has been bothering him last 2 years. Matthews is just a safer but. Lower ceiling but higher floor. Which averages out to be a wash

 

But what would you say are his strengths...?

Edited by marshawn lynch

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ChaRisMa    2

I watched every college game of Mathews and he is NOT as profiled here. Time will tell the true story.

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TheRealMcCoy    50
2 hours ago, marshawn lynch said:

Talent wise. Watkins is by far more talented. Production wise Matthews outperforms Sammy. I think what he was trying to say is yes we may be giving up a talented reciever but we are gaining a player who can be expected to out produce Watkins. Which is what makes it a wash. I mean Sammy already knicked up his foot that has been bothering him last 2 years. Matthews is just a safer but. Lower ceiling but higher floor. Which averages out to be a wash

 

But what would you say are his strengths...?

He's good at finding soft spots in zone coverage. 

He's a hard worker.

He's a great locker room guy.

He's not afraid to get blasted on crossers over the middle.

 

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BillsGuy82    4
4 hours ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

You really overrate Matthews.

The guy is a slot that doesn't have good hands, doesn't know how to toe tap, isn't good attacking the ball in the air, not a great route runner, not good after the catch, etc.

He's a decent slot WR.

If that works for you, then fine.

I get that availability is the most important ability, but c'mon. He isn't on Watkins level talent wise.

He shouldn't demand as much money as Watkins if you want to keep him though.

Your beat writer said he is an exceptional route runner and major influence on alot of his team mates 

He fits the short to intermediate route passing attack that our offense will be running better than Watkins who excels as a deep threat. Tyrod Taylor down field throws are usually very inaccurate 

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TheRealMcCoy    50
Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, BillsGuy82 said:

Your beat writer said he is an exceptional route runner and major influence on alot of his team mates 

He fits the short to intermediate route passing attack that our offense will be running better than Watkins who excels as a deep threat. Tyrod Taylor down field throws are usually very inaccurate 

I don't agree with my teams beat writers most of the time.

I think he's a very solid route runner, but I don't think he's exceptional.  

He's really good at using his hands at the top of his route and throughout.

And, he is definitely a great influence on his teammates. He's a hard worker and a good leader like I already said.

Edited by TheRealMcCoy

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LeeEvans    20
12 hours ago, marshawn lynch said:

Talent wise. Watkins is by far more talented. Production wise Matthews outperforms Sammy. I think what he was trying to say is yes we may be giving up a talented reciever but we are gaining a player who can be expected to out produce Watkins. Which is what makes it a wash. I mean Sammy already knicked up his foot that has been bothering him last 2 years. Matthews is just a safer but. Lower ceiling but higher floor. Which averages out to be a wash

 

But what would you say are his strengths...?

Exactly. That is exactly what I meant. If Sammy can play to his potential and stay healthy than we lose this trade and every way. Given his career so far though I feel comfortable making the move.

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Yibbyl    1

Holy Cow! I absolutely thought this was a gag thread! xD

Now that I've wrapped my head around it all, I honestly think we scored overall! Gaines is probably the weakest link, given how frequently Lisfranc injuries linger for multiple seasons. I still believe Peterman is going to be nothing more than an excellent back-up or low to low-mid level starter, but who knows. He could increase his arm strength and develop into a good starter for an offense that attacks horizontally one day. If that happens, look out! Anyway, I stated before this draft that I wanted to load up to go after a QB next year and we obviously got the ammo to do that now. If we can work it so that we get a 3rd rounder comp pick for Gilmore, we won't even feel like we lost many picks to move up next year, if we do so. The long-term benefits here look incredible now and given that I thought we'd only win ~6 games this year, I don't feel like we took a step backwards in the near term either. I'm excited!

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Broncofan    15

Are you guys seriously thinking you contend this year?  

If you do, I see the angst.  If you don't think you are serious contenders, I don't know how you can be upset at this deal.  You weren't comfortable committing big $ to Watkins.  Your D scheme is heavy on zone, vs. man, which really plays away from Darby's strengths.   And you got a 2nd round pick, that could easily be top 5 rd 2, and a 3rd round pick, to now get 6 picks in the first 3 rounds.   Gaines isn't on paper as good as Darby, but he's cheap like Darby, and a better scheme fit.   And Matthews isn't nearly as talented as Watkins, but he's also going to be way cheaper to retain, if you decide he's worth keeping.  

If you think you are still rebuilding to contend, that's the formula for success.  By next year, you probably are letting Watkins walk given how bad of a fit he was in your O with Taylor, and at best walk away with a 2019 back-end 3rd round comp pick (#100-ish).   As opposed to a pick as high as the mid-30's in a deep draft a year earlier.   

If I thought my franchise was rebuilding (not outright tanking, but just thinking future as much as now), I'd be thrilled.  Take it from an outsider.

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