Jump to content
Jeezla

2019 Draft Off-Ball LB Prospect General Discussion Thread

Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, Duffman57 said:

I like Bush, but the "sources say" section on the NFL combine profile talked about how David Long from WVU was basically a discount Bush and I can't stop seeing it.  Long is a little more aggressive and reckless with his play, but numbers wise, they're incredibly similar, and I think both will have very good careers.  Anyone else see the comparison?

Being more aggressive as a weakside linebacker isn't always a good thing. Bush is better at working against blocks and while he appears to be slow to react, a lot of this is him simply dragging anchor to prevent cutbacks. Splash play linebackers aren't usually great players. I want consistency and guys that execute within the scheme on a regular basis. Jamie Collins is a splash play linebacker. He's freaking terrible and got a fat contract as a result. Bush is a ready-made NFL starter and doesn't need any seasoning. Stack that with his athletic gifts and you have a future stud. He's a beast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/9/2019 at 7:35 PM, BleedTheClock said:

Being more aggressive as a weakside linebacker isn't always a good thing. Bush is better at working against blocks and while he appears to be slow to react, a lot of this is him simply dragging anchor to prevent cutbacks. Splash play linebackers aren't usually great players. I want consistency and guys that execute within the scheme on a regular basis. Jamie Collins is a splash play linebacker. He's freaking terrible and got a fat contract as a result. Bush is a ready-made NFL starter and doesn't need any seasoning. Stack that with his athletic gifts and you have a future stud. He's a beast.

I will disagree.  Even if he is dragging the anchor his is not making tackles.  Your MLB should be making tackles.  either filling the hole the RB is taking at least pursuing the ball carrier. Bush seems to stay 5 yards back while he reads the play then is late to react or a Olineman gets on him.  Perhaps it is the college game where he must wait on the RPO.  That is not a guy you draft in the 1st round.  The 1st round is all about splash players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jebrick said:

Bush seems to stay 5 yards back while he reads the play then is late to react or a Olineman gets on him.

I don't see this at all. Roquan Smith was a beast at pacing and staying back to avoid blockers. Devin Bush is going to be fine. He's an excellent football player and plays the position the way it is supposed to be played.

Remember Darron Lee? That's a prime example of a terrible linebacker. He would be overly aggressive and get piledriven out of the play at times. Then when they actually ran to him, he'd stand there like a deer in the headlights and get eviscerated. That's an example of someone that doesn't get it. Devin Bush gets it. I'm not sure why you don't like him. The only times I see him screw up are when he's blitzed out of the play, which is out of his control. He's also playing out of position having to play lined up over guards all the time. He should be aligned at the edge of the box, where he'll be in the NFL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jebrick said:

I will disagree.  Even if he is dragging the anchor his is not making tackles.  Your MLB should be making tackles.  either filling the hole the RB is taking at least pursuing the ball carrier. Bush seems to stay 5 yards back while he reads the play then is late to react or a Olineman gets on him.  Perhaps it is the college game where he must wait on the RPO.  That is not a guy you draft in the 1st round.  The 1st round is all about splash players.

Yeah, I didn't see that at all. I hope the other teams let him drop to the Rams. I saw a guy who was quick to read and react, rarely took false steps, showed no fear filling lanes and attacking blockers, ran sideline to sideline with ease, and could handle difficult coverage assignments. I was actually disappointed when he destroyed the Combine (but not at all surprised) because I knew he wasn't falling to the Rams. The only thing that kid lacks is an inch or two of height.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just watch the Ohio State game for one example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Andrew Van Ginkel looks like he could be a decent LB

Anyone watched him a lot?

Edited by Jeezla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jeezla said:

Andrew Van Ginkel looks like he could be a decent LB

Anyone watched him a lot?

Ran a 4.5 at his pro day. His numbers compare almost exactly with Clay Matthews across the board (except bench). Needs to get stronger against the run, but he is good in space, covers grond in a hurry when blitzing, and can play special teams. I'd definitely take a gamble on him late.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Why do people think Devin Bush is a better player than Vosean Joseph?

I don’t see it at all

I think it's instincts. It seems like they have equal-ish ceilings but Joseph's floor is on the rock bottom. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 15/03/2019 at 7:29 AM, brownie man said:

Why do people think Devin Bush is a better player than Vosean Joseph?

I don’t see it at all

 

On 15/03/2019 at 7:33 AM, MOSteelers56 said:

I think it's instincts. It seems like they have equal-ish ceilings but Joseph's floor is on the rock bottom. 

I don't think it's "instincts"...it's more...discipline.

Vosean is absolute dynamite when his instincts lead him right.  He might even be the best LB in this draft when he gets it right.  He gets it wrong sometimes though.  He probably trusts his instincts too much a lot of the time.  Whereas Bush has instincts, but has more of the discipline to rein it in a bit and play within the system.

 

Honestly, i hate talk about a LBers "floor" though.  Every LBers floor is basically..."Special Teamer" or worse...selling insurance or whatever.  The world is flooded with "floor" LBers who never make it because they just aren't athletic enough.  If there's an athlete who shows good instincts and has the athleticism to play in the big leagues...i'd rather work with that, than a guy who doesn't have the traits to keep up with the game even if they're a savant at reading the play.  At the very least, they're gonna have the "floor" of ST Ace if you get them trained up right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Tugboat said:

 

I don't think it's "instincts"...it's more...discipline.

Vosean is absolute dynamite when his instincts lead him right.  He might even be the best LB in this draft when he gets it right.  He gets it wrong sometimes though.  He probably trusts his instincts too much a lot of the time.  Whereas Bush has instincts, but has more of the discipline to rein it in a bit and play within the system.

 

Honestly, i hate talk about a LBers "floor" though.  Every LBers floor is basically..."Special Teamer" or worse...selling insurance or whatever.  The world is flooded with "floor" LBers who never make it because they just aren't athletic enough.  If there's an athlete who shows good instincts and has the athleticism to play in the big leagues...i'd rather work with that, than a guy who doesn't have the traits to keep up with the game even if they're a savant at reading the play.  At the very least, they're gonna have the "floor" of ST Ace if you get them trained up right.

Just like I agreed with @Tugboat in another thread I will disagree here.  Low floor is for for raw LB.  I would say V. Joseph is a low floor high ceiling LB.  he is very raw and if he does not learn or improve you get a very athletic ST.  But he could be another Shazier who was also a low floor high ceiling player.  It took Shazier 2 1/2 years to learn to harness his abilities in the correct direction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 7:29 AM, brownie man said:

Why do people think Devin Bush is a better player than Vosean Joseph?

I don’t see it at all

Because they value a LB who isn't freelancing, blowing coverages, missing tackles, and hanging the rest of the defense out to dry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/15/2019 at 9:29 AM, brownie man said:

Why do people think Devin Bush is a better player than Vosean Joseph?

I don’t see it at all

Because Joseph is uber inconsistent and the majority of his tape is ugly. Joseph is strictly a speed potential guy - his instincts and football IQ are some of the worst I've watched. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Just like I agreed with @Tugboat in another thread I will disagree here.  Low floor is for for raw LB.  I would say V. Joseph is a low floor high ceiling LB.  he is very raw and if he does not learn or improve you get a very athletic ST.  But he could be another Shazier who was also a low floor high ceiling player.  It took Shazier 2 1/2 years to learn to harness his abilities in the correct direction.

It depends on where you're talking about a guy obviously, round-wise.  But if you're into the mid-rounds and you're talking about a LBer...do you want a guy whose floor is..."athletic STer" with the upside of starting LBer in a couple years?  Or a guy whose ceiling is basically "depth LBer" with less athletic ST play?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×