Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

[lancerman]

2 minutes ago, NFLExpert49 said:

Uh, the 49ers writer who presented him interviewed his former teammates and that was what swayed the whole room this year. 

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/owens-unlikely-hall-fame-supporter-steps

So they got two QB's one of which never had any issues with him to say nice things about him so he could get in. We saw what happened in his career. We saw him blow up the Eagles. We saw him get paid to sit on the bench.

[NFLExpert49]

1 minute ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Just stop. Even in the midst of defending TO, I can't ignore his propensity to divide locker rooms. Nor do I condone or support it. 

Any fan that has watched football over the last 20 years cannot deny this.  

If you believe he divided locker rooms, you're both naive and utterly clueless. 

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

[NFLExpert49]

Just now, lancerman said:

So they got two QB's one of which never had any issues with him to say nice things about him so he could get in. We saw what happened in his career. We saw him blow up the Eagles. We saw him get paid to sit on the bench.

He got nearly 30 former teammates to speak on his behalf (and there were tons more, but he didn't use all of them). 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

5 minutes ago, lancerman said:

No. Everyone knew he was getting in. We all knew he was waiting awhile because the voters didn't feel like he deserved to be honored right away because 

1. He had off the field issues. 

2. Historically going in 1st ballot as a WR has been reserved for only super elite guys who were Jerry Rice level in their era.

The only way TO would have died before he got in was if he did something stupid that got himself killed. He was a finalist multiple times. 

You still don't know for certainty though how long the voters would have stuck to their guns. It's really easy to examine it now that he's enshrined, but it's not at the time he was up for debate to get in. Especially since the year before he didn't even make the final 15 if I remember correctly.

[lancerman]

5 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

How do you mean? How do we know that he's closing potential relationships? We know because he said he's not attending the event to celebrate on his own way. I don't see what he could say in public that could fix opportunity to bond he's missing out on. 

Why would all of the previous inductees go to a private event outside the HOF just to celebrate Owens himself. I get the feeling everyone would scoff at that. Could easily come off as Owens seeing himself as bigger than the HOF as a whole. 

In this case I think Owens' actions speak louder than any statement he could make. 

Because. 

1. It really isn't unprecedented for a super elite level WR who ranked very highly all time to still have to wait a few years. 

2. It is incredibly unprecedented for someone of that level to have to wait long enough to have possibly died. His worst case scenario was waiting as long as Cris Carter.

[JAF-N72EX]

2 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

How do you mean? How do we know that he's closing potential relationships? We know because he said he's not attending the event to celebrate on his own way. I don't see what he could say in public that could fix opportunity to bond he's missing out on. 

Why would all of the previous inductees go to a private event outside the HOF just to celebrate Owens himself. I get the feeling everyone would scoff at that. Could easily come off as Owens seeing himself as bigger than the HOF as a whole. 

In this case I think Owens' actions speak louder than any statement he could make. 

He don't have to say anything in public.

We don't know what his motives are behind any of this. We don't know what kind of relationship that he has with any of these players. We're all assuming at this point.

 

[lancerman]

1 minute ago, PapaShogun said:

You still don't know for certainty though how long the voters would have stuck to their guns. It's really easy to examine it now that he's enshrined, but it's not at the time he was up for debate to get in. Especially since the year before he didn't even make the final 15 if I remember correctly.

I can name plenty of WR's who were elite that had to wait. How many players at TO's level waited until they died? He was getting in. You can play the "we don't know for sure" card. But everyone knew they were just holding him back a bit. 

[NFLExpert49]

2 minutes ago, lancerman said:

So they got two QB's one of which never had any issues with him to say nice things about him so he could get in. We saw what happened in his career. We saw him blow up the Eagles. We saw him get paid to sit on the bench.

Oh, and also: He never "blew up the Eagles." Donovan McNabb was playing with a sports hernia injury and eventually had to shut down his season and have surgery. They were 4-3 with Owens that year. 

Also, we saw Andy Reid tell Owens that he could remain on the team and not miss a single game if he only apologized to McNabb and the team for the Graham Bensinger interview. It was only after he refused that he moved to suspend and deactivate him. This in the middle of a contract dispute and the biggest media firestorm in the history of professional sports. 

[Kiltman]

One side of it, like how in any way will his Speech live up to Brian Dawkins and Ray Lewis'?

Maybe he just didn't want to bother...but the pettiness in me would've rather gone up there and take my time to solidify my case as probably the most dominant athlete at the position ever.
And then bounce.

 

But it's a rather fitting way for it all to end...if TO could've gotten out of Owens' way, his star would be much brighter and he wouldn't have money issues (perhaps) because he'd be beloved by Philly and we make life pretty cush for ex players here.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

5 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

He don't have to say anything in public.

We don't know what his motives are behind any of this. We don't know what kind of relationship that he has with any of these players. We're all assuming at this point.

 

Yeah he doesn't have to. I'm responding to the comment that said people should wait until he does, which he said he was going to do. 

[sp6488]

1 minute ago, NFLExpert49 said:

1. Jeff Garcia was no longer his teammate at the time. 

2. He did nothing to McNabb. The media single-handedly created that. He wasn't the one who accused him of throwing up in the Super Bowl. That was Hank Fraley, Freddie Mitchell, and Jon Runyan. He never said the Eagles would be better off with Brett Favre at QB; he answered a follow up question after saying that if McNabb were healthy, their record would be better, by acknowledging that Irvin's comments that the Eagles' record would also be better with Favre at QB was "a good assessment." 

You have no idea what actually unfolded because you've been sold a bunch of lies by people with every incentive to lie to you to make money off said lies. 

On item #1, is that seriously your best defense of his actions there?  Do you not see how that would be indicative of the type of person he is?  How is it that thousands of players who likely didn't have the best relationship with other guys they played with were able to avoid doing something like that?  How is it that TO was the only one who ended up going to a major magazine to make derogatory comments about the sexuality of a former teammate?  Do you not see how that could be seen as VERY strong evidence re: his quality as a teammate?

On item #2, I'm not particularly impressed that you are "refuting" specific items I never brought up.  Anyone who was watching football at the time could tell that there was a rift between the two.  Here's a story from 2006 (with extensive direct quotes from McNabb).  CLEARLY, McNabb thought that TO had created a rift in the locker room.  But sure, keep saying that there was no rift between the two players. http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=2315565

On your final statement, you have a real Bielefeld Conspiracy thing going now.  Apparently, anyone who can provide support evidence that TO was indeed divisive really just shows how deep the movement to besmirch him goes.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

6 minutes ago, lancerman said:

I can name plenty of WR's who were elite that had to wait. How many players at TO's level waited until they died? He was getting in. You can play the "we don't know for sure" card. But everyone knew they were just holding him back a bit. 

Again let me clarify: I already said that he was going to get in. I wanted him to, and had been going to bat for him for a while. He deserves it. But at the same time the voters have the final say, and it's impossible to tell how long he would have had to wait due to his polarizing nature regardless of whatever talent he had. And it wasn't looking good when he didn't make the final 15 the previous try. 

[Kiltman]

3 minutes ago, NFLExpert49 said:

7 minutes ago, lancerman said:

So they got two QB's one of which never had any issues with him to say nice things about him so he could get in. We saw what happened in his career. We saw him blow up the Eagles. We saw him get paid to sit on the bench.

Oh, and also: He never "blew up the Eagles." Donovan McNabb was playing with a sports hernia injury and eventually had to shut down his season and have surgery. They were 4-3 with Owens that year. 

Also, we saw Andy Reid tell Owens that he could remain on the team and not miss a single game if he only apologized to McNabb and the team for the Graham Bensinger interview. It was only after he refused that he moved to suspend and deactivate him. This in the middle of a contract dispute and the biggest media firestorm in the history of professional sports. 

Yea it was a lot of crap hitting the same fan at the same time.

It did kinda kill an era, but it was the next season that Garcia took them on a nice run and then they were almost in the super bowl again in 08.
So the Eagles didn't get blown up...only time that's happen the last 20 years is when the Tubby Toddler Chip got control...but even that was two years away from a super bowl win so idk.

[Ragnarok]

10 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

You still don't know for certainty though how long the voters would have stuck to their guns. It's really easy to examine it now that he's enshrined, but it's not at the time he was up for debate to get in. Especially since the year before he didn't even make the final 15 if I remember correctly.

I personally don't think they could have kept to their guns for too much longer without becoming the bad guys.  Voting him in now allowed them to make it look like it was just the normal course of events while sticking it to him for a while.  He was getting in very soon.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

Just now, Ragnarok said:

I personally don't think they could have kept to their guns for too much longer without becoming the bad guys.  Voting him in now allowed them to make it look like it was just the normal course of events while sticking it to him for a while.  He was getting in very soon.

Possibly. Depends on if the voters really gave a **** about public outcry. Especially since they can hide under the cloak of anonymity with their votes. 

Personally I think Ray Lewis and Randy Moss getting in was the best thing for Owens' chances.