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When Tyrod Frustrates With Risk-Averse Decisions Don't Worry, Be Happy

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1 hour ago, BrownLeader said:

There's a solid chance Hue is going to **** this up. Everybody knows this right? Taylor plays an awful lot like an athletic Kessler. He avoids downfield shots, scrambles and dinks and dunks. Hue hated that so much he didn't even give Kessler a legit shot year 2 after a solid rookie year. Variables are, how much directorial control Hue has really given up on the offensive side ( Which by the way, is unheard of. ...because I cant think of another HC with a specialty on one side of the ball, hiring a guy on that same side and completely giving up control.) and whether Haley will also demand downfield shots and grow tired of Taylor.

All of this is true except hardly any of it. Kessler had his chances in practice and games. He just proved he isn’t very good.  That’s not on Hue. The only time Kessler was any good was when teams didn’t have game film on him. He went from meh to crap really quick. 

Tyrod is what he is, an ok starter and a holder of the team until mayfield takes over. 

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2 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

All of this is true except hardly any of it. Kessler had his chances in practice and games. He just proved he isn’t very good.  That’s not on Hue. The only time Kessler was any good was when teams didn’t have game film on him. He went from meh to crap really quick. 

Tyrod is what he is, an ok starter and a holder of the team until mayfield takes over. 

Kinda true. The last game he started was his worst game, against the Steelers in 2016 but of the last 4 games he started that was the only one where he had a rating under 90. He wasn't great in the Dallas game, although statistically he was, but they just steamrolled us in every aspect. He technically wasn't ever great but that is different than being crap. I get he was bad in practice (depending on the reports) which made him 3rd string in preseason playing with guys who couldn't beat out the Higgins and Louis' of the world. Still, looked better than Hogan and Brock and even with Kizer minus arm skills. We would have won games with Kessler though and maybe enough that we wouldn't have got our pick of the litter at #1 so it's all good. He is a better QB than Hogan and Kizer though and will lose you less games than either.

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With Kessler in the fold we probably have a glorious 2-14 season last year. We get to keep Baker and not have the 0-16 stain on our souls. 

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26 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Kinda true. The last game he started was his worst game, against the Steelers in 2016 but of the last 4 games he started that was the only one where he had a rating under 90. He wasn't great in the Dallas game, although statistically he was, but they just steamrolled us in every aspect. He technically wasn't ever great but that is different than being crap. I get he was bad in practice (depending on the reports) which made him 3rd string in preseason playing with guys who couldn't beat out the Higgins and Louis' of the world. Still, looked better than Hogan and Brock and even with Kizer minus arm skills. We would have won games with Kessler though and maybe enough that we wouldn't have got our pick of the litter at #1 so it's all good. He is a better QB than Hogan and Kizer though and will lose you less games than either.

That may be what the stats say, but I remember watching regression as the season went. Again I was somewhat highish on him to at least be a decent backup for us and looked forward to see him hopefully progress. However did not happen. He was terrible in the preseason and terrible in his one chance at a start. You guys may hate Hue for starting Kizer but I thoroughly believe Hue thought he was the best of the bunch. After watching Kessler I agreed. 

Anywho this feels like the 10th time we’ve had this discussion. So happy Groundhog Day!

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8 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Yeah he should have been league MVP

When did I say that? I said him and Wood. Watkins did have 8 TDs last year. 

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5 hours ago, BrownLeader said:

There's a solid chance Hue is going to **** this up. Everybody knows this right? Taylor plays an awful lot like an athletic Kessler. He avoids downfield shots, scrambles and dinks and dunks. Hue hated that so much he didn't even give Kessler a legit shot year 2 after a solid rookie year. Variables are, how much directorial control Hue has really given up on the offensive side ( Which by the way, is unheard of. ...because I cant think of another HC with a specialty on one side of the ball, hiring a guy on that same side and completely giving up control.) and whether Haley will also demand downfield shots and grow tired of Taylor.

There's a solid chance that Hue won't be calling our offense this year (rolling my eyes here).  Also, Taylor has never had the weapons around him that he has now.  Taylor is going to beast next year and break the bank a year from now for some team.

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3 hours ago, buno67 said:

When did I say that? I said him and Wood. Watkins did have 8 TDs last year. 

You didn't but he didn't make any noise either he had by far his worst season with LA and really did very little besides those TDs. He had less than 50 yards 75% of the games including the playoffs and he was 4th on the Rams in receiving yards with a low catch rate and terrible yards after the catch.

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3 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

That may be what the stats say, but I remember watching regression as the season went. Again I was somewhat highish on him to at least be a decent backup for us and looked forward to see him hopefully progress. However did not happen. He was terrible in the preseason and terrible in his one chance at a start. You guys may hate Hue for starting Kizer but I thoroughly believe Hue thought he was the best of the bunch. After watching Kessler I agreed. 

Anywho this feels like the 10th time we’ve had this discussion. So happy Groundhog Day!

Yeah you can't really argue against the "eye test" and production means nothing to you so what is the point. I'd feel very comfortable having Kessler versus Kizer with the exact same teams playing against each other. I think Kessler wins 95% of those, even though he would be helped by the fact that Kizer would throw away 60 of them but other than that Kessler is just a better QB with less of an arm.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Kessler is just a more cautious QB with less of an arm.

FIFY, let's not mistake being ultra cautious with actually being good, Chad Pennington was a really good QB with a noodle arm and he made it in the league, if Kessler were any good, he would still be playing with us

Edited by MSURacerDT55

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14 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Yeah you can't really argue against the "eye test" and production means nothing to you so what is the point. I'd feel very comfortable having Kessler versus Kizer with the exact same teams playing against each other. I think Kessler wins 95% of those, even though he would be helped by the fact that Kizer would throw away 60 of them but other than that Kessler is just a better QB with less of an arm.

So you basically want to replace suck with suck with Kizer and Kessler? Kessler wins 95% of what games?  I sure don’t remember either one winning anything. 

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1 hour ago, Bonanza23 said:

So you basically want to replace suck with suck with Kizer and Kessler? Kessler wins 95% of what games?  I sure don’t remember either one winning anything. 

If they were both starting QBs for the Browns playing against each other. Kessler didn't win you games with his arm. Kizer didn't either but he lost you games with it. Kizer turned it over 6 times as many times as Kessler per snap. If Kessler was suck then Kizer is something many times worse than suck, whatever that would be. Neither were the future, certainly not in Hue's offense so I didn't really care that Kizer started and it worked out as we drafted a Cody Kessler type with a better arm and more athleticism. Was relieved we didn't take the Kizer type with the better arm, the Bills can deal with that.

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1 hour ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

FIFY, let's not mistake being ultra cautious with actually being good, Chad Pennington was a really good QB with a noodle arm and he made it in the league, if Kessler were any good, he would still be playing with us

He made it 2 seasons, the guy who was drafted higher and wasn't at all cautious made it one. Alex Smith, Tyrod Taylor, Sam Bradford and even Derek Carr actually play similar as far as taking chances as Kessler. Sure none are top quarterbacks and that style doesn't usually lead you to filling up the stat sheet but you can be successful being conservative. It is certainly better than taking chances that you don't trust yourself to make, then you end up with turnover machines.

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2 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

If they were both starting QBs for the Browns playing against each other. Kessler didn't win you games with his arm. Kizer didn't either but he lost you games with it. Kizer turned it over 6 times as many times as Kessler per snap. If Kessler was suck then Kizer is something many times worse than suck, whatever that would be. Neither were the future, certainly not in Hue's offense so I didn't really care that Kizer started and it worked out as we drafted a Cody Kessler type with a better arm and more athleticism. Was relieved we didn't take the Kizer type with the better arm, the Bills can deal with that.

Kizers arm got the browns into the red zone but was also the reason they failed to score. Kessler prolly wouldn’t even get them into scoring position 

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4 hours ago, buno67 said:

Kizers arm got the browns into the red zone but was also the reason they failed to score. Kessler prolly wouldn’t even get them into scoring position 

Well we did have quite a bit fewer FG attempts in 17 than 16 and we scored 30 fewer points in '17 and a lot of that has to do with being -28 on turnover differential. Also had less offensive yards in 2017. But okay.

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4 hours ago, buno67 said:

Kizers arm got the browns into the red zone but was also the reason they failed to score. Kessler prolly wouldn’t even get them into scoring position 

Yessir. I don’t recall Kessler moving us at all. Possibly the lesser of the crap QBs at least moved the suckwad 0-16 team that we witnessed. 

Kessler will go the way of the Frye. Clog some arteries and useful for some epic dumps. 

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