2018 Draft RB Thread

[MSURacerDT55]

1 minute ago, BrownLeader said:

Interesting. I think Jones is often not patient enough. He wants to go 100 into the first crease he sees.

That's the objective, it's a fast game especially in a zone scheme where he came from. Its called sticking your foot in the ground and getting down hill.

[IDOG_det]

Just now, BrownLeader said:

Interesting. I think Jones is often not patient enough. He wants to go 100 into the first crease he sees.

Exactly, Barkley's issue is that he doesn't take what's there and instead tries to make something happen out of nothing. You want the RB to take the first lane he sees, that's what the RB is supposed to do in 99% of blocking schemes.

[IDOG_det]

Just now, MSURacerDT55 said:

That's the objective, it's a fast game especially in a zone scheme where he came from. Its called sticking your foot in the ground and getting down hill.

One of the most overlooked things in this draft is how bad Barkley is at reading zone blocking. The game against Ohio State was especially terrible for him. Tried to bounce a run outside that was completely contained, missed the cutback, and almost resulted in a safety. He didn't perform the cutback on split zones multiple times, which kind of defeats the purpose of running split zone. I get that his OL sucks, but it doesn't help the OL if you don't run to the right spot when they actually block it up right. At a certain point the RB has to share some of the blame. 

[MSURacerDT55]

Just now, IDOG_det said:

One of the most overlooked things in this draft is how bad Barkley is at reading zone blocking. The game against Ohio State was especially terrible for him. Tried to bounce a run outside that was completely contained, missed the cutback, and almost resulted in a safety. He didn't perform the cutback on split zones multiple times, which kind of defeats the purpose of running split zone. I get that his OL sucks, but it doesn't help the OL if you don't run to the right spot when they actually block it up right. At a certain point the RB has to share some of the blame. 

100% agreed, you aren't going to win the heisman with every run. This is why I like Jones a lot because he gets the routine yards and his game translates well to the next level. I guarantee a lot of RB coaches in the league covet his style, he doesn't mess around, he presses it, sees it, and hits it hard.

[BrownLeader]

Patience is what creates yards imo. The guy that takes it full tilt into the first thing he sees will generate some yards, especially if it's blocked up well..if it's not, he's going nowhere. The guy who manipulates will be much more productive. Sure there are times where the hole is there instantly but more times than not, a guy is going to have to use vision and patience to open things up.

The best runners in the league right now..Bell, Johnson, McCoy, Zeke..don't just hit up in there at 100 everytime. Great feet, patience and burst are the best traits a RB can have.

[Jlash]

39 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

he presses it, sees it, and hits it hard

[IDOG_det]

2 hours ago, BrownLeader said:

Patience is what creates yards imo. The guy that takes it full tilt into the first thing he sees will generate some yards, especially if it's blocked up well..if it's not, he's going nowhere. The guy who manipulates will be much more productive. Sure there are times where the hole is there instantly but more times than not, a guy is going to have to use vision and patience to open things up.

The best runners in the league right now..Bell, Johnson, McCoy, Zeke..don't just hit up in there at 100 everytime. Great feet, patience and burst are the best traits a RB can have.

There's a difference between being "the guy who manipulates" and "the guy who cuts the wrong way". Theres also a difference between being decisive and just slamming forward and hoping it works out. Far too often Barkley is the guy going the wrong way on zones. Ronald Jones isn't ever really the guy just slamming forward hoping it works out. 

[KhanYouDigIt]

22 hours ago, VanS said:

I've made my feelings on how overrated Leonard Fournette is very clear.  3.9 YPC doesn't impress me.   I don't even consider him to be that good of a player.   So him not getting into the top 10 of the last 2 RBs classes (which are arguably two of the best of all-time) is not a big deal to me.

3.9 YPC when he was hurt for a majority of the year, played behind a below average O-Line and faced 8+ men in the box 49% of the time.

The Rams played goal-line defense at midfield to stop Fournette.....

Watch the games instead of relying on box scores.

 

 

[Danger]

Fortunately for Barkley's sake. Vision and knowing when to hit a crease is something that is certainly coachable.

[BigD88]

1 hour ago, Danger said:

Fortunately for Barkley's sake. Vision and knowing when to hit a crease is something that is certainly coachable.

Watching Barkley, it's more an issue of trust in his OL than coaching to me.  As the season wore on (and especially against good defenses like Ohio State), he simply didn't trust that the cutbacks would be there and felt he had to get going as quickly as possible, and make something happen on his own, after starting the play flat-footed on the read.

After spending his career behind that line, it's hard to blame him.

 

I'd also add I love Jones as a prospect and have him as my clear RB2 of the past two classes.  I was not high on Kamara which was a big miss on my part.

[BleedTheClock]

On 2/19/2018 at 8:44 PM, KhanYouDigIt said:

3.9 YPC when he was hurt for a majority of the year, played behind a below average O-Line and faced 8+ men in the box 49% of the time.

The Rams played goal-line defense at midfield to stop Fournette.....

Watch the games instead of relying on box scores.

Good luck trying to make this argument. Fournette sucks apparently. Alvin Kamara would have had the Jaguars at 19-0 this past season. If Jacksonville were smart, they'd trade Fournette for a 5th round pick and take Rashaad Penny. Easy upgrade.

[BleedTheClock]

Saquon Barkley had an atrocious OL at Penn State. He played against loaded boxes and had to create splash plays out on the perimeter. That was PSU's best chance to win games. They couldn't consistently crush down front 7's on the interior. I don't blame Barkley for bouncing so much because this is what worked in college. His size and toughness lead me to believe he'll have no problems operating in a power run scheme in the NFL if his blockers are actually competent.

I wish he ran with more power, but I don't think he needs to. He was making guys miss left and right in college and I don't question his physical toughness at all either. I've seen him battle dudes for yards and I've seen him smash people on the goal line. He can do it just fine when he needs to.

Vision is not a concern for me. I have it down as one of his strengths. I prefer runningbacks that just slam it up inside and take what they can get every time even if it means missing a cutback, but this style is becoming archaic unfortunately (this was all I was ever able to do as a player). The new standard is being patient, jump cutting, and accelerating out of those jump cuts with speed and power. Barkley fits that build, PLUS he has excellent receiving ability.

I have no great comparison for Saquon Barkley. He's like a poor man's Barry Sanders, but a rich man's Fred Taylor...but has a Le'Veon Bell-like play style. Tough guy to come up with a great comp for.

[Danger]

3 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

Saquon Barkley had an atrocious OL at Penn State. He played against loaded boxes and had to create splash plays out on the perimeter. That was PSU's best chance to win games. They couldn't consistently crush down front 7's on the interior. I don't blame Barkley for bouncing so much because this is what worked in college. His size and toughness lead me to believe he'll have no problems operating in a power run scheme in the NFL if his blockers are actually competent.

I wish he ran with more power, but I don't think he needs to. He was making guys miss left and right in college and I don't question his physical toughness at all either. I've seen him battle dudes for yards and I've seen him smash people on the goal line. He can do it just fine when he needs to.

Vision is not a concern for me. I have it down as one of his strengths. I prefer runningbacks that just slam it up inside and take what they can get every time even if it means missing a cutback, but this style is becoming archaic unfortunately (this was all I was ever able to do as a player). The new standard is being patient, jump cutting, and accelerating out of those jump cuts with speed and power. Barkley fits that build, PLUS he has excellent receiving ability.

I have no great comparison for Saquon Barkley. He's like a poor man's Barry Sanders, but a rich man's Fred Taylor...but has a Le'Veon Bell-like play style. Tough guy to come up with a great comp for.

A more physical LeSean McCoy?

[CalhounLambeau]

The Saquon Barkley criticism for me is getting tired. I just appreciate him for what he is. It seems people can't get over the fact that he's never going to run like Walter Payton. I think we would all love him to be the perfect back that fulfills everyone's dreams of what a RB should be. It's 2018, forget for a moment what he'll do as a runner. What doesn't get discussed enough is how he's absolutely going to kill people and be a maniac in the passing game. He's going to be so much fun. I watched a lot of McCaffrey this past year. Watching defenses freak out and adjust to him as he moved around the field pre-snap was great. Barkley is going to change an offense and be a nightmare for defenses. People are so focused on traditional running backs and traditional production. It's very frustrating. 

[jrry32]

John Kelly Jr. is insanely underrated. Tennessee and Butch Jones did everything they could to keep that kid down. He actually rushed for more yardage on less carries than Alvin Kamara in 2016. Now, Kamara is the more talented player because of his long speed, but Kelly can be a good three-down HB in the NFL. His pass protection technique needs refining, but I think he'll be fine there. If anything, he's too aggressive and physical. He ducks his head and tries to truck blitzers instead of staying square and using his hands. He definitely has the willingness, physicality, and strength to be a quality player there. And I think he's going to be a very dynamic receiver because of the sharpness of his cuts, his soft hands, and his ability to break tackles and make tacklers miss in space. He rarely goes down on first contact. I see a guy who will be a better NFL HB than a college HB because of how atrocious that Tennessee offense was this year. Some team is going to get a gem in the mid-rounds.