2018 Draft Eligible WR Thread

[jrry32]

3 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Yeah, don't get me wrong - I love all 3 guys.  I just think JuJu got dinged for being less refined in his route running, when he was just a baby.  Now, I love Kupp and Gonzalez's game.   If you want a pure slot guy, they're deadly IMO.  JuJu has more outside game, but in the slot, give me those other 2.   Especially as I think those types get devalued more (although Kupp has done a good job to change people's thinking).

I think Miller can be just as effective outside. He reminds me of Golden Tate, but I think he has an even higher ceiling.

Yea, Juju was a kid, but it's difficult to project route running. I've been relying more on what I see and less on what I project since the Tavon Austin disaster. 

[goldfishwars]

Miller has been my favorite receiver prospect for a while, I think there's a genuine chance he gets a little lost in the mix and someone lands an incredible bargain. 

[Iamcanadian]

According to pro scouts, this crop of WR's lacks top end elite skills. There is likely to be only 1 WR going in round 1 and he will drafted somewhere in the 18 to 25 range and that is Ridley. Because their is a lack of top ranked WR's, one other might get pushed up into very late round 1, likely Moore or Kirk. 

However this draft has a lot of WR's who have a chance to be decent #2's on their teams, some will step forward no doubt, while others will flop. rounds 2 and 3 will see a lot of WR's picked with his in mind, but any talk of them as elite prospects is simply misplaced. What they will accomplish as pros is a whole different story!!!

[BleedTheClock]

Anthony Miller is probably best suited as an outside Z receiver. He is the most versatile and least flawed WR in this class. Like Antonio Brown, nothing looks difficult for him. He isn't the biggest or fastest guy, but he beats man and zone with ease because of his route running. And if he's sandwiched between defenders, he's still got the ability to go up and snag the football in a massive crowd. He's awesome. I don't want to throw out the Antonio Brown comparison because that's extremely hard to live up to, but I do see a lot of similarities in their games. I don't think there's anything Miller can't do. He's not the greatest RAC guy and tends to possession catch most of the balls thrown his way, but that's about the only critique I have about him when you watch him play. He runs a full route tree and has success underneath and deep against all kinds of coverages. He's going to be a supercharged #2 WR for someone with an outside chance of being an unconventional #1 (not uber-fast or uber-huge).

[jrry32]

10 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Anthony Miller is probably best suited as an outside Z receiver. He is the most versatile and least flawed WR in this class. Like Antonio Brown, nothing looks difficult for him. He isn't the biggest or fastest guy, but he beats man and zone with ease because of his route running. And if he's sandwiched between defenders, he's still got the ability to go up and snag the football in a massive crowd. He's awesome. I don't want to throw out the Antonio Brown comparison because that's extremely hard to live up to, but I do see a lot of similarities in their games. I don't think there's anything Miller can't do. He's not the greatest RAC guy and tends to possession catch most of the balls thrown his way, but that's about the only critique I have about him when you watch him play. He runs a full route tree and has success underneath and deep against all kinds of coverages. He's going to be a supercharged #2 WR for someone with an outside chance of being an unconventional #1 (not uber-fast or uber-huge).

Yea, I thought AB as well, but I can't make that comparison. I do have to disagree that he's not a great RAC guy. He's strong, slippery, and physical with the ability to elude tacklers in the open-field. 

[BleedTheClock]

1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

Yea, I thought AB as well, but I can't make that comparison. I do have to disagree that he's not a great RAC guy. He's strong, slippery, and physical with the ability to elude tacklers in the open-field. 

When he has the ball in his hands, he's great. But I see him frequently high point the ball and hit the ground when he doesn't really need to. He's way more focused on making the catch than he is on gaining yardage afterwards, which is a good thing. But it hinders the amount of big RAC opportunities he gets. He contorts in the air and explodes up to the catch point so well that it often hinders his ability to RAC. It's like he always catches like he's in traffic. That's fine--I'd rather a guy do that than the opposite, but I think his RAC opportunities take a hit as a result.

[jrry32]

2 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

When he has the ball in his hands, he's great. But I see him frequently high point the ball and hit the ground when he doesn't really need to. He's way more focused on making the catch than he is on gaining yardage afterwards, which is a good thing. But it hinders the amount of big RAC opportunities he gets. He contorts in the air and explodes up to the catch point so well that it often hinders his ability to RAC. It's like he always catches like he's in traffic. That's fine--I'd rather a guy do that than the opposite, but I think his RAC opportunities take a hit as a result.

That's true on deep routes for sure. On shorter routes, I think he drops some passes because he tries to run instead of looking it in. He's got ridiculous mitts. Did you see the catch he made against USF?

 

[Tugboat]

On 3/26/2018 at 5:54 PM, jrry32 said:

That's true on deep routes for sure. On shorter routes, I think he drops some passes because he tries to run instead of looking it in. He's got ridiculous mitts. Did you see the catch he made against USF?

 

I kinda see a mix of this, and what @BleedTheClock is talking about above.  It's something i'm not overly enamoured with in Miller.  It seems like there's a bit of both.  Lets some easy ones get away from him with what seems like lack of focus and/or trying to make yards before he's even got the ball.  But he's also got the deeper ones where he secures the catch, at the expense of some yards after catch opportunity.  Just makes me question how good his hands really are.  And then he has the eye popping highlight reel stuff.  There was one against UConn i think too, that he just sorta one-handed snagged in stride like it was warmup.

Just seems to me like "decent" but sorta inconsistent hands that he doesn't always seem to fully trust.  Certainly not "bad hands", but not standout magic velcro hands to hang his hat on either.  Not entirely sure what to make of it, but it leaves me a bit cold on the whole.  Or at least, colder than a lot of people seem to be on him.

[jrry32]

20 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

I kinda see a mix of this, and what @BleedTheClock is talking about above.  It's something i'm not overly enamoured with in Miller.  It seems like there's a bit of both.  Lets some easy ones get away from him with what seems like lack of focus and/or trying to make yards before he's even got the ball.  But he's also got the deeper ones where he secures the catch, at the expense of some yards after catch opportunity.  Just makes me question how good his hands really are.  And then he has the eye popping highlight reel stuff.  There was one against UConn i think too, that he just sorta one-handed snagged in stride like it was warmup.

Just seems to me like "decent" but sorta inconsistent hands that he doesn't always seem to fully trust.  Certainly not "bad hands", but not standout magic velcro hands to hang his hat on either.  Not entirely sure what to make of it, but it leaves me a bit cold on the whole.  Or at least, colder than a lot of people seem to be on him.

His hands are very good. He'll drop some passes, but it's not because he lacks the ability. It's all concentration. OBJ had the same issue coming out of college. Hell, OBJ still drops passes now and again in the NFL. But none of us question his hands. Drops are simply part of playing WR for just about everyone not named Larry Fitzgerald.

[pnies20]

...

[Tugboat]

4 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

His hands are ridiculously good. He'll drop some passes, but it's not because he lacks the ability. It's all concentration. OBJ had the same issue coming out of college. Hell, OBJ still drops passes now and again in the NFL. But none of us question his hands. Drops are simply part of playing WR for just about everyone not named Larry Fitzgerald.

I still find OBJ's concentration drops kinda annoying.    Whether it's lack of ability or not, on balance the highlight reel circus catches don't tend to impress me quite as much as the easy drops bother me.  But that's just me.  I'm very negative and demanding.  So i reserve things like "ridiculously good" for really special football catchers...like Fitz.  Or at least something like the top10% of hands in the NFL.  Which i don't come away with the impression Miller is going to be.  Between the concentration drops, the tendency to body catch more than he needs to, the contorting and going to ground to make sure he secures the balls, etc.

It's hardly a dealbreaker, or even a true negative on him by any means.  But i just wouldn't describe them as "ridiculously good".  And it's just part of the overall package that leaves me more lukewarm than it seems to with a lot of other draftniks.  Which is fine if he's a later Day 2 sort of prospect, they're not going to be special or perfect as prospects, and he's got the upside to be a really solid do-it-all sort of #2 target for someone.  But idk...some of the hype on him makes him sound destined to be a star with ridiculously good hands, which i'm not quite seeing.

[jrry32]

2 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

I still find OBJ's concentration drops kinda annoying.    Whether it's lack of ability or not, on balance the highlight reel circus catches don't tend to impress me quite as much as the easy drops bother me.  But that's just me.  I'm very negative and demanding.  So i reserve things like "ridiculously good" for really special football catchers...like Fitz.  Or at least something like the top10% of hands in the NFL.  Which i don't come away with the impression Miller is going to be. Between the concentration drops, the tendency to body catch more than he needs to, the contorting and going to ground to make sure he secures the balls, etc.

It's hardly a dealbreaker, or even a true negative on him by any means.  But i just wouldn't describe them as "ridiculously good".  And it's just part of the overall package that leaves me more lukewarm than it seems to with a lot of other draftniks.  Which is fine if he's a later Day 2 sort of prospect, they're not going to be special or perfect as prospects, and he's got the upside to be a really solid do-it-all sort of #2 target for someone.  But idk...some of the hype on him makes him sound destined to be a star with ridiculously good hands, which i'm not quite seeing.

Wait, what?

I changed it from "ridiculously good" to "very good" to avoid a semantics debate. I could see how someone would interpret "ridiculously good" to mean "elite." And I don't think his hands are of the same caliber as the Fitz's or Alshon's of the world. But his hands are definitely a major plus. When you combine it with his outstanding body control, he routinely is able to make difficult catches look easy. Miller can play. I'm all in on the kid. He's my Cooper Kupp this year. I see a guy with the ability to be a star.

[Tugboat]

29 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Wait, what?

I changed it from "ridiculously good" to "very good" to avoid a semantics debate. I could see how someone would interpret "ridiculously good" to mean "elite." And I don't think his hands are of the same caliber as the Fitz's or Alshon's of the world. But his hands are definitely a major plus. When you combine it with his outstanding body control, he routinely is able to make difficult catches look easy. Miller can play. I'm all in on the kid. He's my Cooper Kupp this year. I see a guy with the ability to be a star.

Yeah.  I don't think we're even really arguing about all that much at this point.    A difference of opinion on whether we're talking about "good" or "very good" hands - "positive" vs a "major plus".  Obviously don't see quite eye to eye on it.  I see those things that i'd count as minor dings in a claim of "major plus" hands...which i'd reserve for the Fitz's and Alshon's of the world, personally.  Obviously not as impressed with his hands as you are.  But i'm not saying Miller has bad hands at all.  I'd just call them..."good".  Nothing special outside of some highlight reel catches...nothing truly negative either.  Just good.

Which is where most of his skillset seems to fall for me watching him.  A lot of "good" across the board.  As opposed to serious star potential.  I mean, i'd never say never.  It happens plenty; guys who aren't amazing bluechip prospects becoming star NFLers as they continue to refine and build their skillsets, find the perfect landing spots, etc.  But if i saw realistic star potential with any likelihood, in a WR draft kinda starved for that type of prospect...he'd be an easy 1st rounder for me.  And i'm not there on him.  But you're certainly not alone in seeing more there than i do.

[jrry32]

8 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

Yeah.  I don't think we're even really arguing about all that much at this point.    A difference of opinion on whether we're talking about "good" or "very good" hands - "positive" vs a "major plus".  Obviously don't see quite eye to eye on it.  I see those things that i'd count as minor dings in a claim of "major plus" hands...which i'd reserve for the Fitz's and Alshon's of the world, personally.  Obviously not as impressed with his hands as you are.  But i'm not saying Miller has bad hands at all.  I'd just call them..."good".  Nothing special outside of some highlight reel catches...nothing truly negative either.  Just good.

Which is where most of his skillset seems to fall for me watching him.  A lot of "good" across the board.  As opposed to serious star potential.  I mean, i'd never say never.  It happens plenty; guys who aren't amazing bluechip prospects becoming star NFLers as they continue to refine and build their skillsets, find the perfect landing spots, etc.  But if i saw realistic star potential with any likelihood, in a WR draft kinda starved for that type of prospect...he'd be an easy 1st rounder for me.  And i'm not there on him.  But you're certainly not alone in seeing more there than i do.

I see a guy who does everything well with the quick-twitch athleticism, change of directional skills, and nuanced approach to route running to become a consistent separator in the NFL. In my mind, you have two categories of great WRs:

1. The freak athletes with solid/good skills

2. The elite skill guys with solid/good athleticism

Miller strikes me as a guy capable of being #2. The right type of athleticism is there for his route running skill to be among the best in the NFL, and he already displays nuances in his route running that are NFL-level skills. I think a couple realistic comparisons for him are Greg Jennings and Golden Tate. But I think his ceiling is Antonio Brown. 

EDIT: And as I think on it, I said Golden Tate earlier, but Greg Jennings really feels like the perfect comparison to me.

[jrry32]

Ya know, people are hating on this WR class, but Calvin Ridley and Anthony Miller are going to be very effective players on Sundays imo.