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Cadmus

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Agreed. I'm hoping we don't have to burn another higher pick on a Tackle next year. I think Spriggs has a breakout year this year and Murphy takes a step forward as well. If either of those two slip up in camp, Byron Bell could possibly leapfrog them. 

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On 6/15/2018 at 8:53 AM, Cadmus said:

S: Haha Clinton-Dix, Josh Jones, Quinten Rollins, Kentrell Brice, Marwin Evans

Rollins is the wildcard here, and I feel (might be in the minority) that he could develop into an impact player at safety. Based on Minicamp, Packers brass has finally elected to try Rollins at safety, which I've always felt was his most natural NFL position. That 40 Time all those years ago truly dampened his prospects at CB in the NFL. It was clear that Rollins benefited (in college) from playing against WRs in the MAC that typically lacked legit NFL speed.  

Agree that Rollins always lacked the necessary speed to play outside and quickness to play in the slot as a NFL CB. 

That the "Packers brass has finally elected to try Rollins at safety" is due to the removal of the former GM & DC who insisted he really was a CB.

Nice to see Pettine not wasting any more time with the Rollins is a CB charade just because he was taken in the 2nd round to play that position.

However, unlike Randall who is also being moved back to his most natural position and thus may well thrive at safety in Cleveland, I am not optimistic that Rollins has a future at safety.

Rollins played 1 year of CB at Miami of Ohio and then mostly floundered at CB in GB for 3 years. He is not very athletic and it is very difficult to develop "instincts" at the NFL level playing at an unfamiliar position. And, he is coming off an achilles injury.

Thus, while Rollins has a better chance of succeeding at S than at CB (where he had no chance), it is still a very slim one.

I would not be shocked if Rollins joins Randall as an ex-Packer prior to the start of the 2018 season.

 

 

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The problem with Rollins at safety is his overall lack of experience playing football. Making the change to safety with his lack of speed and experience is going to be extremely tough. I expect him to be cut this training camp.

It's his 4th year, he's proven nothing and given us zero return on our second round pick. I think Whitehead is way ahead of him at safety. 

 

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Don't know why everyone hates on Rollins quite so much. 

Let's review some recent history. 

Davon House shows some good things, mostly bad things in his first three years.  Goes to Jacksonville, has one of the best seasons for a corner in the NFL in year 2015. 

Casey Hayward looks like the steal of the draft in his rookie year with 6 interceptions.  Injuries and three years of being used improperly and in a bad system and NOBODY has a problem with letting him go. 

Micah Hyde does some really promising things in his first four years in Green Bay, but he is hampered by being a poor fit and not used properly.  He moves to safety for Buffalo and has a pro bowl season. 

Quinten Rollins looks very promising as a rookie with EXTREMELY limited football playing time.  Two interceptions, a sack and a touchdown.  Gets used poorly and placed in impossible situations based on his skillset and football knowledge. 

Why is it so unrealistic that Rollins goes from being poorly used with poor results only to go on to a new coordinator who uses him appropriately for him to bounce back and thrive when used properly?

I'll tell you why... Some people are so consumed with hatred for Thompson that they REFUSE to accept how good he was at finding talent because they can't disassociate the TALENT with how they were USED. 

Virtually every single defensive back who left the Packers during Dom's time here performed extremely better for their other team, but now that's impossible for Rollins?  Thompson hate still so strong. 

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4 hours ago, Cadmus said:

Kendricks is likely the most controversial exclusion on my final roster. It all comes down to the money, but assuming both Lewis and Graham exit TC healthy... I wouldn't be stunned to see him released during final cuts. 

The placement of Rollins on the final depth chart has more to do with my attempt to highlight the potential impact he could have at safety. It will certainly be an uphill climb to switch positions in the NFL, but (again, I might be in the minority) I think he possesses a wide range of outcomes at the position. Truly feel he has the ability to be an impact player, but he'll likely start the season behind Brice because of the position switch.

 

I am not a fan of Kendricks.  I really wasn't when we signed him.  I just think that the guys behind him are not roster worthy and I think that if Kendricks gets the axe, I'd rather keep an extra WR, DB, or lineman than the other back-up TEs.  That said, I also thought that Bennett would be better than Cook and that was a pretty poor assessment of the TE position.  

 

I also think that Brice will get the starting position opposite of Clinton-Dix, so you can see why I would be very surprised if Rollins leapfrogs him on the depth chart.  

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58 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Don't know why everyone hates on Rollins quite so much. ...

Quinten Rollins looks very promising as a rookie with EXTREMELY limited football playing time.  Two interceptions, a sack and a touchdown.  Gets used poorly and placed in impossible situations based on his skillset and football knowledge. 

Why is it so unrealistic that Rollins goes from being poorly used with poor results only to go on to a new coordinator who uses him appropriately for him to bounce back and thrive when used properly?.....

After his injury I have no idea what he'll have physically.  But another part of his 3 years is that he's been injured for most of the last two years, and much of the first as well.  Not sure that's going to be better this year.  But *IF* he showed up *healthy*, *and* being used properly, we might see a somewhat different guy.  Health is so much a part of it, as the classic Adams-year-2 versus Adams-year-3 illustrates.  

Obviously for Rollins to come back 100% after the sever injury/surgery that he had, that is NOT either certain or likely.  But in the hypothetical landscape where he was, you never know.  

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Posted (edited)

With Rollins... 

Being a mid to high 4.5s player with plus ball skills should work at safety. 

Honestly, as long as he can see the play develop in front of him... I think his instincts are probably above average. 

He just doesn't always trust himself (or his speed) in man coverage.

Look at the rookie highlights. There really aren't any plays where he turned around to locate the ball (at the last second) against an NFL WR. There are two instances he has PBUs while  running away from the QB. Both are against the Raiders. The first one is against Crabtree and he knows that the WR has limited space in the endzone before he's out of bounds so that's why he's comfortable checking the QB. The second one is against TE Mychal Rivera, and he tuns because he has zero fear of Rivera running away from him. 

And the College Highlights...  

I agree with @HorizontoZenith. Rollins is a talented player that just hasn't been utilized properly at the NFL level. 

The ball skills are apparent. He just needs to "see it" and the fact he doesn't trust himself with his back to th QB made him a poor candidate to play CB in the NFL.

He's always had a much higher ceiling at safety IMHO. 

Edited by Cadmus

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3 hours ago, DavidatMIZZOU said:

I am not a fan of Kendricks.  I really wasn't when we signed him.  I just think that the guys behind him are not roster worthy and I think that if Kendricks gets the axe, I'd rather keep an extra WR, DB, or lineman than the other back-up TEs.  That said, I also thought that Bennett would be better than Cook and that was a pretty poor assessment of the TE position.  

 

I also think that Brice will get the starting position opposite of Clinton-Dix, so you can see why I would be very surprised if Rollins leapfrogs him on the depth chart.  

We need to carry at least 3 TEs. 

It just seems that lately when anyone asks someone important about the TEs (Gute, Rodgers, Graham, other offensive players), they talk about Graham and Lewis and then tack on Kendricks at the end. 

It's probably more likely than not that Kendricks makes the final roster, but he's far more likely to be a surprise cut than almost anyone else on this roster unless (potentially) an OL severly under-performs.... because that position is so deep.  

1.2 Million is nothing to sneeze at (and that already factors in keeping Byrd)... the real number is closer to 1.8 Million. 

Also, I'm not a Brice guy, and I'll be honest and say that I've never been a fan. Jones flashed too much during TC last year for me to believe that Brice takes that job, but hey stranger things have happened.  

 

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You can be down on Rollins without being a Thompson hater.

The skill shown on the field wasn't great (you can blame that on Capers if you desire) but the lack of athleticism will always be a limiting factor and that Achillies injuries has more casualties than survivors. 

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2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

You can be down on Rollins without being a Thompson hater.

The skill shown on the field wasn't great (you can blame that on Capers if you desire) but the lack of athleticism will always be a limiting factor and that Achillies injuries has more casualties than survivors. 

What's with the 'lack' of athleticism?  He played college basketball for four years and was such a good athlete he walked on and played football.  Lack of football IQ- I get that, but he's a very good athlete. Whether he can come back from the achilles tear is the question.

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First of all, Brice is going to get the other Safety position. 

After reading the discussion about Rollins, I'm convinced that we're in a wait-n-see period with some of these DB's the way we'll do so with our OLB's. There's no disputing that Dom's defense routinely put our players in a position to fail and the only reason he lasted as long as he did is because our cheerleader media didn't put the screws to him, nor did anyone in the organization hold him accountable because they were blinded by his years of experience. Only after players leave and slam the organization was there a change and the lack of change is what tarnished the latter half of TT's tenure as GM. Perhaps Rollins could excel in Pettine's defense as he doesn't have to overthink everything he's going to do in the framework of a defense. 

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1 hour ago, Dubz41 said:

What's with the 'lack' of athleticism?  He played college basketball for four years and was such a good athlete he walked on and played football.  Lack of football IQ- I get that, but he's a very good athlete. Whether he can come back from the achilles tear is the question.

4.57 40 and a 7.10 3 cone is lacking athleticism for the NFL at CB.

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1 hour ago, Dubz41 said:

What's with the 'lack' of athleticism?  He played college basketball for four years and was such a good athlete he walked on and played football.  Lack of football IQ- I get that, but he's a very good athlete. Whether he can come back from the achilles tear is the question.

But he's not a good athlete when compared to his peers.  In regards to athletic measurables, he's in the top 60% of his peers in just one category (vertical jump, 61%).  With his 40 yard dash and 3 cone being in the in the bottom 20% of NFL DBs, past and present (from 1999 till 2018, 13% and 17%).  

 

IMO it not only can be seen in his athletic measurables but his play on the field.  He was awful last year prior to the injury (the Dallas game comes to mind).  I think he'd be fighting for a roster spot even had he not suffered the Achilles tear.  Personally, given his lack of athleticism and the seriousness of the injury, I think his chances of making it in the NFL are as slim as any player on our current roster.  Generally by year 3 their draft position is meaningless and we aren't keeping them just because of the investment that was made.  IMO the only reason he's still on the roster is because he was a 2nd round draft pick.  

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, SSG said:

But he's not a good athlete when compared to his peers.  In regards to athletic measurables, he's in the top 60% of his peers in just one category (vertical jump, 61%).  With his 40 yard dash and 3 cone being in the in the bottom 20% of NFL DBs, past and present (from 1999 till 2018, 13% and 17%).  

 

IMO it not only can be seen in his athletic measurables but his play on the field.  He was awful last year prior to the injury (the Dallas game comes to mind).  I think he'd be fighting for a roster spot even had he not suffered the Achilles tear.  Personally, given his lack of athleticism and the seriousness of the injury, I think his chances of making it in the NFL are as slim as any player on our current roster.  Generally by year 3 their draft position is meaningless and we aren't keeping them just because of the investment that was made.  IMO the only reason he's still on the roster is because he was a 2nd round draft pick.  

 

 

 

Spot on SSG.  Don't think Rollins is going to make the cut.  Too many guys with more talent and athleticism already on the roster.  Let him compete in training camp but it's likely the Packers cut bait.  Think Goodson is likely gone as well.

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On 6/18/2018 at 8:22 AM, AlexGreen#20 said:

You can be down on Rollins without being a Thompson hater.

The skill shown on the field wasn't great (you can blame that on Capers if you desire) but the lack of athleticism will always be a limiting factor and that Achillies injuries has more casualties than survivors. 

Bingo!

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