66PinG Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 I was referring more to the "throwaway" pick comment. l think all draft picks have value and not a single one is a throwaway. Not to mention, the entire 7th round was referred to being throwaway picks. I disagree.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg C. Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 18 hours ago, 66PinG said: Donald Driver disagrees Mark Tauscher too--a seventh round pick who became a quality starter as a rookie. It's hard to believe that teams would have so little regard for seventh round picks, not to mention sixth round picks. The Patriots were even used to back up the argument for the talent pool being so limited. This is the team that took Tom Brady with a sixth round pick. My issue with the long-snapper pick is that even if you get the best one to ever play the game, he's not going to be that much better than most other long snappers in the league. There's very little upside to a long-snapper pick, but at other positions you have an outside chance at landing a really good player and a decent chance at landing a solid rotational player or special teamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoremore Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 14 hours ago, Greg C. said: Mark Tauscher too--a seventh round pick who became a quality starter as a rookie. It's hard to believe that teams would have so little regard for seventh round picks, not to mention sixth round picks. The Patriots were even used to back up the argument for the talent pool being so limited. This is the team that took Tom Brady with a sixth round pick. My issue with the long-snapper pick is that even if you get the best one to ever play the game, he's not going to be that much better than most other long snappers in the league. There's very little upside to a long-snapper pick, but at other positions you have an outside chance at landing a really good player and a decent chance at landing a solid rotational player or special teamer. I agree. Drafting a LS was definitely a head scratcher. My least favorite pick of the draft. If he starts for the Pack over the next decade guess it might have been worth it. Can take this as a reaction to the revolving door we had at the position last year. Also was a bit shocked at picking a P in the 5th. Thought Vogel was pretty decent and we had found our guy. If Scott can routinely tilt the field it will be worth it though. Guess the kid has a monster leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 15 hours ago, Greg C. said: Mark Tauscher too--a seventh round pick who became a quality starter as a rookie. It's hard to believe that teams would have so little regard for seventh round picks, not to mention sixth round picks. The Patriots were even used to back up the argument for the talent pool being so limited. This is the team that took Tom Brady with a sixth round pick. My issue with the long-snapper pick is that even if you get the best one to ever play the game, he's not going to be that much better than most other long snappers in the league. There's very little upside to a long-snapper pick, but at other positions you have an outside chance at landing a really good player and a decent chance at landing a solid rotational player or special teamer. There is value in shoring up a position for the next 10 to 15 years. Less than 5% of the players drafted in the 7th round even become a starter. 6th round is almost the same . That means out of every draft only one team is generally going to find a starter in the last two rounds of the draft. If you can shore up a position like punter, LS, long term return specialist in the last round of the draft i'm all for it. Its just one less thing to worry about for the next 10 years. A LS is never going to win you a game but one can sure lose you a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Spartacus said: There is value in shoring up a position for the next 10 to 15 years. Less than 5% of the players drafted in the 7th round even become a starter. 6th round is almost the same . That means out of every draft only one team is generally going to find a starter in the last two rounds of the draft. If you can shore up a position like punter, LS, long term return specialist in the last round of the draft i'm all for it. Its just one less thing to worry about for the next 10 years. A LS is never going to win you a game but one can sure lose you a game. That's on the Left Guard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooks1957 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 I have cruised over this thread with mild interest as a bonafide womb to the tomb Browns fan. No worries, I come in peace. My offering to this thread is you my want to hold off on the thoughts of QB Brett Hundley's funeral in Green Bay just yet. Allow me to explain. I ran across the following YouTube clip of all 22 of former Browns QB DeShone Kizer's 2017 interceptions. I won't bore you with all the details, but I built my own spread sheet based on data in that clip with what I thought to be relevant. I wanted to share that with my Browns buddies. I will be honest here - Deshone CLEARY has a better all around opportunity for long term NFL success in GB than in CLE. I like Deshone - as a young man and as a player who was still just 21 years old and learning the NFL game. Personally. I think we jettisoned him too quickly, but I will support Dorsey and Co.'s decision not to want to carry the emotuional scars and baggage from 2017 into the future. 14 of the 22 picks (64%) of Kizer's happened in the second half or later in the game when you no longer have the luxury of time on your side. Out of those 14 picks a whopping TEN were in the 4th quarter or OT. That is a staggering 71%. Want to know about drive killers? Get your barf bag ready - 12 of the 22 picks were from the opponents 35 yard line or closer. (55%) And some of those were WTF throws............. I wish DeShone continued growth. He is a good kid who deserved better that the mismanaged clusterf**k that was the Browns offense in 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemike778 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 On 27/06/2018 at 6:15 PM, 66PinG said: I was referring more to the "throwaway" pick comment. l think all draft picks have value and not a single one is a throwaway. Not to mention, the entire 7th round was referred to being throwaway picks. I disagree.. What percentage of players taken in the 7th provide genuine value to the team ? I'm guessing its negligible. By real value, I'm not talking JAGs or guys who can play on special teams to run down kicks a bit. You can get these players in UDFA just like you can get a Long Snapper. Realistically you've probably got a better chance of having a game changer somewhere amongst your UDFA class than you have in your 7th round draft pick. You really aren't losing much so if you really want a LS then its fine by me to take one in the 7th round. Sure Donald Driver's exist but Tom Brady's exist too. You could probably trade your first rounder for about 10 years supply of 6th round picks to make sure you get the next Tom Brady but I don't think anyone would want that. Throwaway is maybe wrong term - just that you can do whatever you want with it. It has no real value - he was picked 239 and the draft value chart doesn't even go that low. Maybe that pick is worth the difference between picking last and second to last in the 6th round. So if you want a ST role player just take one, if you want to take a flyer on a physical freak that can't play the game then whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg C. Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 3 hours ago, mikemike778 said: Throwaway is maybe wrong term - just that you can do whatever you want with it. It has no real value - he was picked 239 and the draft value chart doesn't even go that low. Maybe that pick is worth the difference between picking last and second to last in the 6th round. So if you want a ST role player just take one, if you want to take a flyer on a physical freak that can't play the game then whatever. If throwaway is the wrong term, then why do you say it "has no real value"? Isn't that the definition of throwaway? And if that's the case, why are 7th round picks so often included in trades? I think a good front office is one that sweats the details and puts thought and research into every decision. This includes not only the 7th round picks, but the UFDAs as well. I understand the argument for picking a physical freak who can't play the game or a special teams role player if he's someone who has a chance to really make a difference. And I would even go along with the long snapper decision if he had a really high chance of being a long-term starter, but I think that with a long snapper you're gambling just like you are at every other position. I hope the guy they drafted is rock solid and plays for 12 years. Then the pick arguably will have been worth it. I just think that he's far from a shoo-in, and they would have been better off picking a player who has more upside. Having said that, this is a relatively minor complaint that I have about the draft picks. I don't consider it to be a big deal. The long-snapper pick just seemed a bit reactionary on the part of the GM, and it also makes me worry that the coaches may be lobbying for certain picks and affecting his decisions too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 14 minutes ago, Greg C. said: If throwaway is the wrong term, then why do you say it "has no real value"? Isn't that the definition of throwaway? And if that's the case, why are 7th round picks so often included in trades? I think a good front office is one that sweats the details and puts thought and research into every decision. This includes not only the 7th round picks, but the UFDAs as well. I understand the argument for picking a physical freak who can't play the game or a special teams role player if he's someone who has a chance to really make a difference. And I would even go along with the long snapper decision if he had a really high chance of being a long-term starter, but I think that with a long snapper you're gambling just like you are at every other position. I hope the guy they drafted is rock solid and plays for 12 years. Then the pick arguably will have been worth it. I just think that he's far from a shoo-in, and they would have been better off picking a player who has more upside. Having said that, this is a relatively minor complaint that I have about the draft picks. I don't consider it to be a big deal. The long-snapper pick just seemed a bit reactionary on the part of the GM, and it also makes me worry that the coaches may be lobbying for certain picks and affecting his decisions too much. The long snapper pick is the result of having no players with a draftable grade left on your board. At that point you're hitting your top UDFA targets. If you need a LS, I can kinda see how one would be your top UDFA target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 We did consider Kendall Donnerson a priority UDFA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Joe said: We did consider Kendall Donnerson a priority UDFA... Another special teams prospect. Scott, MVS, Donnerson, and Bradley are all ST prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReadyToThump Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Donnerson is a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 There is another way to view picks like kickers, punters and long snappers. When you are picking in the later rounds (6&7), then a CB, S, or WR, is likely to be a 5th or 6th best on their unit. Their best chance is to have a special teams role while they develop (or don't). If you are picking a P/K/LS then you are picking one of the top available guys at that position. Now round five was pretty early for a punter, but that was because he was a quite exceptional one in college. The chances of getting a solid return on a (drafted) punter and long snapper are good, as they are in the top handful of candidates in college. No doubt the Packers could have got a decent player there as an undrafted free agent, but the best guys will have gone, AND you will probably have competition for those that are left. I think spending picks in this way is a GOOD thing - the only problem in doing that, is that once you have 'your guy' you don't need another there, perhaps for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 17 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Another special teams prospect. Scott, MVS, Donnerson, and Bradley are all ST prospects. Right, but prospects(Donnerson and MVS in particular) that can be developed into being more than core ST players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Joe said: Right, but prospects(Donnerson and MVS in particular) that can be developed into being more than core ST players. Eh, probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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