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brownie man

Chiefs 2012 Season to Chiefs 2013 Season and what that means for us!

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Posted (edited)

In 2012 Chiefs went 2-14

Then John Dorsey was hired

and in 2013 Chiefs went 11-5

Does this give us a legitimate reason for optimism? 

Edited by brownie man

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50 minutes ago, brownie man said:

In 2012 Chiefs went 2-14

Then John Dorsey was hired

and in 2013 Chiefs went 11-5

Does this give us a legitimate reason for optimism? 

KC  Pretty much the same team + Alex Smith + Andy Reid + Doug Pederson - Romeo Crennel. That is an equation for improvement if there ever was one. 

We have had a big upgrade at QB, not to the same extent, 

We have had a good upgrade at OC, not to the same extent. 

We have had  a bigger talent influx than the 2013 at all positions not QB. 

We will see what happens week 1. 

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2 hours ago, Kiwibrown said:

KC  Pretty much the same team + Alex Smith + Andy Reid + Doug Pederson - Romeo Crennel. That is an equation for improvement if there ever was one. 

We have had a big upgrade at QB, not to the same extent, 

We have had a good upgrade at OC, not to the same extent. 

We have had  a bigger talent influx than the 2013 at all positions not QB. 

We will see what happens week 1. 

I think Taylor could be close to what Smith was that year with our weapons.

I also think that Haley is one of the best OCs in the league.  It’s not out of the question if the team gels well and quickly.

The talent is there, the coaching is there.

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22 minutes ago, DizzyDean said:

I think Taylor could be close to what Smith was that year with our weapons.

I also think that Haley is one of the best OCs in the league.  It’s not out of the question if the team gels well and quickly.

The talent is there, the coaching is there.

I think it is fair prediction. 

With cleveland, nothing is written in stone. 

Both Andy Reid and Pederaon are some of the best coaches of our time. Haley, Williams, and Hur are at best middle of the road guys imo.

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4 hours ago, Kiwibrown said:

Both Andy Reid and Pederaon are some of the best coaches of our time. Haley, Williams, and Hur are at best middle of the road guys imo.

Yeah, I don’t know if Williams and Haley are great, but they’re definitely capable of coaching a quality offense/defense provided we have some talent, which we certainly do.

Hopefully Williams gets his head out of his arse and fixed whatever abomination that scheme was last year, but I’m reasonably confident he will.

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10 hours ago, brownie man said:

In 2012 Chiefs went 2-14

Then John Dorsey was hired

and in 2013 Chiefs went 11-5

Does this give us a legitimate reason for optimism? 

No, not optimism in terms of having an 11 win season. Dorsey is about the only similarity between the two teams and situations. The previous KC GM focused on building up their roster, which was legitimately better than a 2-14 roster when Dorsey took over and made some additional moves. They also had a proven winner HC. Our previous GM focused on an extreme youth movement and salary cap space, and we have a HC who has one 9 games in 3 seasons at the helm. In the Sashi rebuild plan (which we are still on, even though Dorsey may have accelerated it a bit) the 2019-20 season is realistically the one we can look at for playoff contention/an 11 win season. I believe if all the breaks go our way, 8-8 is still about as optimistic as one should allow themselves to get this year. I think we're looking at 5-11 or 6-10.

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8 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

In the Sashi rebuild plan (which we are still on, even though Dorsey may have accelerated it a bit) the 2019-20 season is realistically the one we can look at for playoff contention/an 11 win season. I believe if all the breaks go our way, 8-8 is still about as optimistic as one should allow themselves to get this year. I think we're looking at 5-11 or 6-10.

Agreed.

It was always a 4-5 year plan as opposed to the 2-3 some fans wanted. When Sashi took over he had nothing to work with, no talent, little cap space, etc.

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I don't think its out of the question at all to be honest.

I think people over exadurate how good the talent in the NFL is.

First of all, we had WAY more talent than a 0-16 team last year, but we were not helped by a 21 year old rookie QB and an inept offensive coordinator who had NO idea how to use him.

I think we will improve on defense because we both have better players, and they are more experianced in the system.  We were already the best team at run defense (yards per carry), and we were middle of the pack in yards given up per game (14th best).  Half of that was because or defense was on the field so often as we turned the ball over a TON.

On the offensive side of the ball, we are replacing that 21 year old rookie, with someone who was able to get the buffalo bills to 9-7 DESPITE being sat halfway through the year for doug peterson who through 5 interceptions in 1 half...  But the biggest difference we made all year wasn't Gordon being healthy, It wasn't Hyde and Chubb, It wasn't Jarvis Landry, it wasn't Ndjoku with an extra year under his belt, its Hue Jackson NOT calling the plays...Let him focus on making more errors with challenge flags and clock management.

You see this all the time, Teams going from one of the worst teams in the NFL to one of the better records in short order.  The chiefs in 2012-2013, last year alone the rams went from 4-12 to 11-5, and the Jaguars went from 3-13 to 10-6.  Just the top of my head I am also remembering the colts going 2-14 in 2011 and 11-5 in 2012, the Saints going from 3-13 to 10-6 from 2005-2006, the Chargers were 4-12 in 2003 and 12-4 in 2004.  The rams were 4-12 in 1998 and 13-3 in 1999. I understand that Tyrod Taylor is not Andrew Luck, Kurt Warner or Drew Brees (granted the 03 chargers and 04 chargers both started drew) but he is better than Blake Bortles and I would argue that he is VERY similar to what Alex smith was in San Fransisco with less talent around him in Buffalo than smith had in San Fran.

I hope we can win 6-8 games, but would i be completely shocked if we won double digets? in the NFL today? not really no...

Not only did we have a middle of the range D, but our starting DE's only played 21 of 32 possible games.  Our young SS was playing way out of position.  We upgraded every secondary position (got 4 new corners, a new free safety, putting the SS back where he belongs), we upgraded our linebacking core (Collins back healthy + Kendricks).  That should EASILY upgrade the D to being top 10.  On offense, we upgraded the WR position with Gordon full time and Landry, our super young rookie TE will come into his second year, we upgraded the RB position giving guys more rest.  We upgraded the QB position by a LOT, which every person would agree is the most important position on the field, which will help both offense and defense...  The only positions that took a hit this off season were Nose Tackle and Left Tackle.  The talent margin in the NFL isn't so wide to thing that many upgrades wont make a HUGE impact...

 

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6 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yeah, I don’t know if Williams and Haley are great, but they’re definitely capable of coaching a quality offense/defense provided we have some talent, which we certainly do.

Hopefully Williams gets his head out of his arse and fixed whatever abomination that scheme was last year, but I’m reasonably confident he will.

I heard he is going triple angel this year. Three guys 30 yards deep. 

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1 hour ago, Kiwibrown said:

I heard he is going triple angel this year. Three guys 30 yards deep. 

Playing kick return formation on defense is what I heard.

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2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Playing kick return formation on defense is what I heard.

Last year it was punt returns.

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1 hour ago, Kiwibrown said:

Last year it was punt returns.

Kind of ironic as we never actually forced a team to punt.

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Posted (edited)
Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Kind of ironic as we never actually forced a team to punt.

The bend, til they score defence. Inavation. Innovative. Words don’t be spelling good.

Edited by Kiwibrown

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Just now, Kiwibrown said:

The bend, til they score defence. Inoovative.

Bend then break defense.

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13 hours ago, CBrownsman said:

I don't think its out of the question at all to be honest.

I think people over exadurate how good the talent in the NFL is.

First of all, we had WAY more talent than a 0-16 team last year, but we were not helped by a 21 year old rookie QB and an inept offensive coordinator who had NO idea how to use him.

I think we will improve on defense because we both have better players, and they are more experianced in the system.  We were already the best team at run defense (yards per carry), and we were middle of the pack in yards given up per game (14th best).  Half of that was because or defense was on the field so often as we turned the ball over a TON.

On the offensive side of the ball, we are replacing that 21 year old rookie, with someone who was able to get the buffalo bills to 9-7 DESPITE being sat halfway through the year for doug peterson who through 5 interceptions in 1 half...  But the biggest difference we made all year wasn't Gordon being healthy, It wasn't Hyde and Chubb, It wasn't Jarvis Landry, it wasn't Ndjoku with an extra year under his belt, its Hue Jackson NOT calling the plays...Let him focus on making more errors with challenge flags and clock management.

You see this all the time, Teams going from one of the worst teams in the NFL to one of the better records in short order.  The chiefs in 2012-2013, last year alone the rams went from 4-12 to 11-5, and the Jaguars went from 3-13 to 10-6.  Just the top of my head I am also remembering the colts going 2-14 in 2011 and 11-5 in 2012, the Saints going from 3-13 to 10-6 from 2005-2006, the Chargers were 4-12 in 2003 and 12-4 in 2004.  The rams were 4-12 in 1998 and 13-3 in 1999. I understand that Tyrod Taylor is not Andrew Luck, Kurt Warner or Drew Brees (granted the 03 chargers and 04 chargers both started drew) but he is better than Blake Bortles and I would argue that he is VERY similar to what Alex smith was in San Fransisco with less talent around him in Buffalo than smith had in San Fran.

I hope we can win 6-8 games, but would i be completely shocked if we won double digets? in the NFL today? not really no...

Not only did we have a middle of the range D, but our starting DE's only played 21 of 32 possible games.  Our young SS was playing way out of position.  We upgraded every secondary position (got 4 new corners, a new free safety, putting the SS back where he belongs), we upgraded our linebacking core (Collins back healthy + Kendricks).  That should EASILY upgrade the D to being top 10.  On offense, we upgraded the WR position with Gordon full time and Landry, our super young rookie TE will come into his second year, we upgraded the RB position giving guys more rest.  We upgraded the QB position by a LOT, which every person would agree is the most important position on the field, which will help both offense and defense...  The only positions that took a hit this off season were Nose Tackle and Left Tackle.  The talent margin in the NFL isn't so wide to thing that many upgrades wont make a HUGE impact...

 

The ONLY way to properly utilize that 21 year old rookie QB last year would have been not to play him.  That is great and all, but what were the alternatives?  There were no options unless you wanted to go without a QB and run the wishbone with Duke, Crow, and Dayes.

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