BleedTheClock Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 On 6/19/2018 at 12:23 PM, skywlker32 said: I would tend to have Kuechly in and Peterson out. I might also put Wagner in and remove Julio Jones, but that is a little closer. Bobby Wagner over Julio Jones? Who is your dealer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said: I guess by this logic, Chandler Jones is the best edge player in the league. Except by the logic you’re using to draw this conclusion, you’re not including the objective explosiveness and impact I mentioned. Griffen has superior explosion over Jones and others including Von Miller. Miller has superior hand technique and Jones has a superior wingspan which contributed to their production obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 First of all: 24 minutes ago, DoleINGout said: Griffen has superior explosion over Jones and others including Von Miller. What? 26 minutes ago, DoleINGout said: Except by the logic you’re using to draw this conclusion, you’re not including the objective explosiveness and impact I mentioned. Second, this is like saying Diggs is a better WR than Antonio Brown because he is faster and more explosive. Unless those traits lead to him being more productive, it doesn't really matter. Where athletic traits matter is when you're talking about potential, but both these edge rushers are well past the age where potential matters more than past production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nzd07 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 32 minutes ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said: First of all: What? Second, this is like saying Diggs is a better WR than Antonio Brown because he is faster and more explosive. Unless those traits lead to him being more productive, it doesn't really matter. Where athletic traits matter is when you're talking about potential, but both these edge rushers are well past the age where potential matters more than past production. But you're not acknowledging the fact that production can be disrupted by scheme and/or supporting cast. Do you really think if you swapped Teddy Bridgewater/Case Keenum for Big Ben that Brown would have the same production to date? Likewise, if you're constantly chipping/double teaming an opposing edge rusher the production is going to drop as a result. And that's what happens to Griffen frequently. I'm not going to say that he's without a doubt totally superior to Kerrigan but there is a reason the dude is finally getting his notoriety. He's been a stud pass rusher since 2016 and consistently been the gameplan of opposing defenses. PFF (the source YOU cited,) also rated Griffen just outside the top 50 NFL players and a better player than Kerrigan in 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Nzd07 said: Likewise, if you're constantly chipping/double teaming an opposing edge rusher the production is going to drop as a result. And that's what happens to Griffen frequently. I'm not going to say that he's without a doubt totally superior to Kerrigan but there is a reason the dude is finally getting his notoriety. He's been a stud pass rusher since 2016 and consistently been the gameplan of opposing defenses. PFF (the source YOU cited,) also rated Griffen just outside the top 50 NFL players and a better player than Kerrigan in 2017. And Kerrigan is constantly chopped and doubled as well so I don’t get your point. Wohoo! Griffin has been doing it since 2016. Well, Kerrigan has been a stud since 2011. PFF grades/rankings are a joke. I posted their raw stats, which are actually useful, as a supplement to the other stats I posted. And btw, if anyone is disadvantaged by the supporting cast they have had and the schemes they have played in, it’s Kerrigan. So miss me with that excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nzd07 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 10 minutes ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said: And Kerrigan is constantly chopped and doubled as well so I don’t get your point. Wohoo! Griffin has been doing it since 2016. Well, Kerrigan has been a stud since 2011. PFF grades/rankings are a joke. I posted their raw stats, which are actually useful, as a supplement to the other stats I posted. And btw, if anyone is disadvantaged by the supporting cast they have had and the schemes they have played in, it’s Kerrigan. So miss me with that excuse. How much film do you watch? Because saying that an organization that watches every snap is less informed than you doesn't really make sense to me. I understand some of their grading can seem a bit wonky to those of us who are only watching on Sundays, but who are we to judge? That's not to say that their ranks are the holy bible, either. But to automatically toss them out has always seemed a bit silly to me - save for the few posters on here who are actually football junkies and film grinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 2 hours ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said: but both these edge rushers are well past the age where potential matters more than past production. Not necessarily. Griffen had his best season in 2017. Griff just put it together; his speed propels him ahead whereas Kerrigan has to hang his hat on production from the 2016 and before. Kerrigan has had the better career to date and was a better player but not anymore. As for the Miller quote, Griffen is the most explosive pass rusher in the NFL. Nobody is faster around the edge or in pursuit. Miller has elite hand technique and is an edge player generally opposite the blindside, yet Giffen has more burst and is harder to keep up with from what I’ve seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nex_Gen Posted June 22, 2018 Author Share Posted June 22, 2018 12 hours ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said: Can someone explain to me the love that Everson Griffen gets versus the love that Ryan Kerrigan gets? If it helps, his list is pretty terrible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobikus Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Rodgers Brown Kuechly Gronk Donald Von Miller Zach Martin Julio Jones Bell Patrick Peterson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywlker32 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 12 hours ago, BleedTheClock said: Bobby Wagner over Julio Jones? Who is your dealer? I have a hard time justifying a WR with his recent TD numbers as a top 10 overall player. Wagner and Kuechly have a larger effect on the game than Jones does. I don't know how you can view that as all that crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 8 hours ago, Nex_Gen said: If it helps, his list is pretty terrible... Wow how passive aggressive of you to not directly address me like this. I know, Tom Brady is not in so it is automatically terrible. Then add onto the fact that sword-fighting Aaron Donald, Julio Jones and Von Miller are just outside the top ten - I can see why anyone would think it is a terrible list. Eapecially with Everon Griffen, Deshaun Watson and DeAndre Hopkins included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 6 hours ago, Bobikus said: Rodgers Brown Kuechly Gronk Donald Von Miller Zach Martin Julio Jones Bell Patrick Peterson No Brady? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I feel like way too many people ignored the guy who had Deshaun Watson in #10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Bullet Club said: I feel like way too many people ignored the guy who had Deshaun Watson in #10. I think it's actually universal agreement. If anything, we need to remove the "0" from the ranking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 14 minutes ago, EliteTexan80 said: I think it's actually universal agreement. If anything, we need to remove the "0" from the ranking. The guy who shall not be named agrees this could be the case in a few years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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