BleedTheClock Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 2 hours ago, utley4568 said: Kuzma isn't their best young player. I disagree. Ingram and Randle are nice too, but I'm taking Kuzma over those two. Certainly over Ingram, who I always thought was overrated. I do really like Randle, but he's an undersized post player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 hour ago, CWood21 said: I have to ask, do you think Kuzma has plateaued or is this about losing another year of control? Plateaued Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utley Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 17 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: I disagree. Ingram and Randle are nice too, but I'm taking Kuzma over those two. Certainly over Ingram, who I always thought was overrated. I do really like Randle, but he's an undersized post player. 1.Ingram 2.Ball 3. Kuzma 4. Randle Kuzma and Randle are bench guys on championship teams. Kuzma could probably be the fifth best starter on a title team, though. Ingram still has insane upside and took a huge step this year as a shooter. If he can continue to shoot that well, to go with his defensive abilities and playmaking, he's going to be a top 15 player in the league. Ball still has the same upside that he did last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 I was never a huge Ingram guy but I cannot even fathom someone preferring Kuzma to him. Blows my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, bkobow05 said: I was never a huge Ingram guy but I cannot even fathom someone preferring Kuzma to him. Blows my mind. Agreed. Give me Ingram over Kuzma in any situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 From what I'm understanding, the Lakers would trade Kuzma or Ingram + other stuff for Leonard. If the Lakers, I would do that deal in a heartbeat. There's no way in heck I would even entertain any trade with the Lakers if I'm the Spurs. Not because they're a rival or whatever, but because none of those assets are anywhere near good enough for a top 5 player in the league. Same with the 76ers. There's no way I'm trading Leonard to them unless they're going to give me Ben Simmons. Fultz is such a low value right now, I don't see him being anywhere near enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49er pride Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 3 hours ago, bkobow05 said: Plateaued My biggest fear is that he ends up like Clarkson and just chucks away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 13 hours ago, showtime said: From what I'm understanding, the Lakers would trade Kuzma or Ingram + other stuff for Leonard. If the Lakers, I would do that deal in a heartbeat. There's no way in heck I would even entertain any trade with the Lakers if I'm the Spurs. Not because they're a rival or whatever, but because none of those assets are anywhere near good enough for a top 5 player in the league. Same with the 76ers. There's no way I'm trading Leonard to them unless they're going to give me Ben Simmons. Fultz is such a low value right now, I don't see him being anywhere near enough. The problem is we're not talking about this in a vacuum. Kawhi is coming off a pretty significant injury, and he's pretty much already said he doesn't want to be in San Antonio next year. Why would any team give 100% of the value in return for him? So San Antonio sits on him if they don't get the offer they want, and he leaves next offseason with nothing in return for him. IF the Spurs believe that the threat of him leaving is real, they have to deal him this offseason. So...when/if San Antonio finally decides to deal him, whose looking at him? For me, there's two teams who can offer packages above the rest: Boston and Philadelphia. Then you get into that second tier with both Los Angeles teams and Cleveland, and then you get into that tier of teams who might be willing to make a gamble to change their franchise's future. San Antonio is probably going to ask for at least one of Jayson Tatum or Jaylen Brown. Tatum is probably off-limits in a Kawhi trade for obvious reasons, but would Boston deal Jaylen Brown without assurances from Kawhi's camp that he'll re-sign with them? Given the amount of asset hoarding that Danny Ainge has done in recent years, it seems unlikely that he's going to give up that kind of haul for Kawhi without some sort of understanding that he'll re-sign with them. As for Philadelphia, they're probably second in terms of assets utilizing Markelle Fultz, Dario Saric, and the 10th overall pick. But like Boston, are they willing to give up any of those without some sort of understanding that he'll re-sign with them? They might be willing to deal from their "extra" assets, but in terms of notable assets they're probably not going to be willing to give up. This is closer to the Paul George situation than I think people care to admit. They're not getting Ben Simmons from the Sixers, and they're not getting Tatum from the C's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 Supposedly the Spurs don't want to trade him to anyone in the West, but they are foolish to think they are in the drivers seat. Kawhi has one year left on his deal and can refuse to sign an extension with anyone and has made it clear he wants to be a Laker. So yes, Boston may be able to offer the best package in the East of Jaylen Brown, Rozier, 1sts, etc. But if Kawhi isn't signing long term there is no way they give up that much. Also, Kawhi has shown he is willing to sit out a year and the Spurs can be left with nothing. They should trade him to the Lakers for a big hall of Ingram/Kuzma, Ball, and Randle if possible. Pop is retiring in 2020 so it shouldn't matter much to him. Sitting out last year was the biggest hurdle for Kawhi and it's already been accomplished. He dictates his future now given the circumstances and proven willingness to sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 What value does Markelle Fultz have? I realize he was the #1 overall pick, but the guy couldn't even get onto the court to play. Honestly, I wouldn't trade Leonard for him... I wouldn't even want Fultz on my team, to be honest. That's why I don't really see what the 76ers could offer. I suppose others don't feel the same way about Fultz that I do. Boston gives the best offer by far. Also, I think Boston would still make a trade for Leonard regardless if he agrees to sign an extension or not. I think they'll take that gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 13 minutes ago, showtime said: What value does Markelle Fultz have? I realize he was the #1 overall pick, but the guy couldn't even get onto the court to play. Honestly, I wouldn't trade Leonard for him... I wouldn't even want Fultz on my team, to be honest. That's why I don't really see what the 76ers could offer. I suppose others don't feel the same way about Fultz that I do. Boston gives the best offer by far. Also, I think Boston would still make a trade for Leonard regardless if he agrees to sign an extension or not. I think they'll take that gamble. Could they win a title next year if they trade for Kawhi? Absolutely. But they could lose Kawhi/Kyrie the following year. So the gamble is one title and throwing away everything Danny Ainge has been doing because it will certainly involve Jaylen Brown and 1st round picks to get Kawhi. Not worth it. And they still aren't guaranteed to beat GSW with Kyrie, Tatum, Kawhi, Hayward, Horford. Kawhi is in control of his destiny, Spurs can ho hum all hey want, but will either get peanuts from teams knowing he won't resign if he truly only wants to play in LA . OR get a very good return from the Lakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said: Could they win a title next year if they trade for Kawhi? Absolutely. But they could lose Kawhi/Kyrie the following year. So the gamble is one title and throwing away everything Danny Ainge has been doing because it will certainly involve Jaylen Brown and 1st round picks to get Kawhi. Not worth it. And they still aren't guaranteed to beat GSW with Kyrie, Tatum, Kawhi, Hayward, Horford. Kawhi is in control of his destiny, Spurs can ho hum all hey want, but will either get peanuts from teams knowing he won't resign if he truly only wants to play in LA . OR get a very good return from the Lakers. You're right, all of that is possible. And I agree that most teams would not take that gamble; however, I feel like Boston is one that would. They took a similar-ish gamble with Kyrie Irving because as you said, he could walk next summer. I think the idea is, get these guys in here and let them see the culture and the winning and they will want to re-up. The thing about the Lakers offer is that it's just worse than Boston's. That's the issue if you're the Spurs. You obviously want to trade Leonard to the team that can give you the most in return. The one thing that changes all of this is if Kawhi Leonard says something like this - I will only sign an extension with the Lakers. If I get traded to any other team, I will leave after the season. In this case, nobody would trade for Leonard. However, I don't think this is his stance which leaves an opening for a team like the Celtics to take a risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, showtime said: You're right, all of that is possible. And I agree that most teams would not take that gamble; however, I feel like Boston is one that would. They took a similar-ish gamble with Kyrie Irving because as you said, he could walk next summer. I think the idea is, get these guys in here and let them see the culture and the winning and they will want to re-up. The thing about the Lakers offer is that it's just worse than Boston's. That's the issue if you're the Spurs. You obviously want to trade Leonard to the team that can give you the most in return. The one thing that changes all of this is if Kawhi Leonard says something like this - I will only sign an extension with the Lakers. If I get traded to any other team, I will leave after the season. In this case, nobody would trade for Leonard. However, I don't think this is his stance which leaves an opening for a team like the Celtics to take a risk. Is Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier, + 1st round pick really that much better than Ingram, Randle, and 2022 1st round pick? I think Ingram's upside is higher than Brown's even though he is further along in his development at this point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 53 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said: Is Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier, + 1st round pick really that much better than Ingram, Randle, and 2022 1st round pick? I think Ingram's upside is higher than Brown's even though he is further along in his development at this point in time. What are the first rounders? Isn't the pick the Celtics are trading the Kings pick? That's a potential 1st overall pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, showtime said: What are the first rounders? Isn't the pick the Celtics are trading the Kings pick? That's a potential 1st overall pick. I think it is the Kings, but it's 1st overall protected I believe. Could be wrong. I still love Ingram's potential as KD lite, he's still so young. And Randle is just a quality starter that really started to come into his own last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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