Jlash Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 19 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Doesn't have those same ball skills. Right, hence "bit" and not "clone". Maybe let me clarify. I think he's more Mathieu than Peppers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 22 hours ago, BleedTheClock said: The bolded I don't agree with. James was fantastic in coverage this year. Fitzpatrick was not bad by any imagination, but I don't think he has any shot to play boundary corner. I think he's a nickel corner all the way and could play SS. Derwin James could play FS, SS, or linebacker. I actually like him the most at FS because of how much ground he can cover. He's extremely fast and can fly downhill and make TFL's from a -12 yard alignment. I think James has considerably more upside and comes with a very low floor. Neither is going to be a bust. Both will be great NFL players, so if I'm picking between two possible great NFL players, I'm going to pick the one that is bigger, faster, and stronger. Fitzpatrick sure will probably end up being a safety in the NFL. But he could play corner potentially in the slot or on the outside. There is no way Derwin James plays corner in the NFL, that is the point. And to call him a linebacker, not sure about that one either, if he plays linebacker that means he is extremely lacking in his coverage abilities. Fitzpatrick is more versatile as a defensive back and it is not even close to me. To call James fantastic in coverage, not so sure about that one, to me his ball skills are quite lacking. In terms of pure ball skills and reaction time in pass coverage Fitzpatrick is better for sure. James is a better athlete and is bigger yes, but in coverage Fitzpatrick has much better skills. I see Fitz more as a FS as well not so much a SS, why put a guy so good in coverage around the line of scrimmage instead of in coverage? Only way he is that close to the line is as a slot corner which could also be the case, I would not call Fitzpatrick a in the box SS at all. Will be very interesting how Derwin James times at the combine though, and those back peddle drills will tell a lot in his coverage skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDakViking Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 What are everyone's opinions on DeShon Elliott and/or Armani Watts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 7 hours ago, Ozzy said: Fitzpatrick sure will probably end up being a safety in the NFL. But he could play corner potentially in the slot or on the outside. There is no way Derwin James plays corner in the NFL, that is the point. And to call him a linebacker, not sure about that one either, if he plays linebacker that means he is extremely lacking in his coverage abilities. Fitzpatrick is more versatile as a defensive back and it is not even close to me. To call James fantastic in coverage, not so sure about that one, to me his ball skills are quite lacking. In terms of pure ball skills and reaction time in pass coverage Fitzpatrick is better for sure. James is a better athlete and is bigger yes, but in coverage Fitzpatrick has much better skills. I see Fitz more as a FS as well not so much a SS, why put a guy so good in coverage around the line of scrimmage instead of in coverage? Only way he is that close to the line is as a slot corner which could also be the case, I would not call Fitzpatrick a in the box SS at all. Will be very interesting how Derwin James times at the combine though, and those back peddle drills will tell a lot in his coverage skills. Minkah Fitzpatrick played exactly 0 snaps as a true FS in college. Derwin James did it frequently (and successfully) at Florida State. Not sure how you're so confident Fitzpatrick can be a full-time FS and isn't a SS when he's never done anything to confirm those suspicions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 4 hours ago, BleedTheClock said: Minkah Fitzpatrick played exactly 0 snaps as a true FS in college. Derwin James did it frequently (and successfully) at Florida State. Not sure how you're so confident Fitzpatrick can be a full-time FS and isn't a SS when he's never done anything to confirm those suspicions. So you feel Fitzpatrick cannot play FS, yet cannot play boundary corner either? Ok sure. He is not a big physical hitter, sure one can play semantics and say he was never a deep safety in college but that was because he played more as a combo slot corner than a SS in college, sure was around the line of scrimmage but that was to cover the slot and crossing routes not to be a big time hitter in the box and a physical force which is what most SS are for in my view. His coverage abilities and versatility is Fitzpatrick's best ability, and James tackling is his best ability I feel, so makes sense to call one more of a FS and one more a SS. Yes Fitzpatrick can make plays behind the line but that is because they are open blitzes off the corner that are not picked up and he comes in free, not sure you put him in the box as a safety he comes out hitting and super physical like a linebacker down there like some strong safeties in the NFL. Also, what was most disappointing about James this year was his lack of leadership on the field. He did not really get into his teammates much emotionally as the best player on the team. He allowed things defensively where other great defensive players would not, they would inspire their teammates with their words, actions and their play. James I felt did not do much of that, compared to say Jamal Adams who is a far better leader on the field and more passionate player. Heck could argue would one really take Derwin James or Jamal Adams, not sure it is that big of a difference unless Derwin blows up at the combine. Heck I had Budda Baker as a 1st round pick last year as well, and could say he had better college tape overall than James did, and Budda is more of a slot corner/safety type similar potentially to Fitzpatrick. Just again overall Derwin James I had super high expectations of him as a prospect potentially, and he clearly did not meet those this year with his play. When things got hard in the year and they were losing one could see if affect his play and his emotions where it really should not. Did not bring the same intensity or passion as he did as a freshman, but maybe it was a mental thing or a physical thing after the injury, which again will be told at the combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 5 hours ago, Ozzy said: So you feel Fitzpatrick cannot play FS, yet cannot play boundary corner either? Ok sure. He is not a big physical hitter, sure one can play semantics and say he was never a deep safety in college but that was because he played more as a combo slot corner than a SS in college, sure was around the line of scrimmage but that was to cover the slot and crossing routes not to be a big time hitter in the box and a physical force which is what most SS are for in my view. His coverage abilities and versatility is Fitzpatrick's best ability, and James tackling is his best ability I feel, so makes sense to call one more of a FS and one more a SS. Yes Fitzpatrick can make plays behind the line but that is because they are open blitzes off the corner that are not picked up and he comes in free, not sure you put him in the box as a safety he comes out hitting and super physical like a linebacker down there like some strong safeties in the NFL. I think he can play FS, but I think it's a mistake to assume he'd be better at it than Derwin James, who actually did this successfully in college. I think it's a waste of Fitzpatrick's talent to put him at FS. He's got excellent run game instincts and underneath zone cover skills. Having him stand away from the action and prevent long touchdowns isn't maximizing his talents. It's wasteful and risky. He's not a big time hitter, but he never misses tackles and takes elite angles to avoid blocks and make plays. He's an excellent timing blitzer. He screams nickelback/SS to me. I think he CAN play FS, but why? If I'm drafting him that early, I'm drafting him because of what I saw him do as a SS/Nickel. Oh, and how are nickel corners and strong safeties any different? They are the capped overhangs on the weak side of the defense away from the TE (SLB draws that coverage). They literally align in the same exact spot unless it's a 2-high look where the SS becomes a 2-read deep 1/2 player. Despite the name "strong safety," the SS usually ends up on the back side to keep him free to scrape, blitz, and rob the backside X receiver underneath. No, Fitzpatrick cannot play boundary corner. He's not fluid enough to run with those kinds of athletes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 After Derwin James, Justin Reid (Stanford) could be the best pure safety. He looks better than his brother whose been a good player in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 On 19/02/2018 at 5:20 AM, VanS said: After Derwin James, Justin Reid (Stanford) could be the best pure safety. He looks better than his brother whose been a good player in the league. He’s really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingseanjohn Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 On 2/16/2018 at 9:55 PM, NoDakViking said: What are everyone's opinions on DeShon Elliott and/or Armani Watts? I haven't dove into the scouting like some have. But so far, Elliott is my favorite safety this year. I think he'll go earlier than people expect, like Keanu Neal. Not saying he'll go in the first, but I'm hoping he lasts in the 2nd and falls to the Chiefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlash Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 8 hours ago, kingseanjohn said: I haven't dove into the scouting like some have. But so far, Elliott is my favorite safety this year. I think he'll go earlier than people expect, like Keanu Neal. Not saying he'll go in the first, but I'm hoping he lasts in the 2nd and falls to the Chiefs. I like watching Elliott a lot too. It seems people knock him for a lack of athleticism but I think that's a little over blown. Jessie Bates is a guy I keep reading about but I haven't actually watched anything on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bananabucket Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Interesting note from Tony Pauline: "Minkah Fitzpatrick stands head and shoulders above any corner in the nation, which is not a surprise. The big surprise is how few teams presently view Fitzpatrick as a safety; the Alabama junior is graded at cornerback by almost every team." http://draftanalyst.com/pre-combine-cornerback-boards-plenty-top-100-talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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