2018 Draft Eligible Safety Thread

[Scoundrel]

I actually have Elliott as a top 15 player in this draft currently. His play recognition can make him a pro bowl player at the next level combined with the other attributes I listed above if he can put it all together and play consistently.

I didn't really mention many negatives before with Elliott but two I can pinpoint are sometimes shaky tackling (which I kind of mentioned but it's more he doesn't bring much pop often and makes shoe string tackles that will get broken by more powerful backs), and although he has made many plays he doesn't have the hands of someone like Hooker. Also his body language bothers me sometimes. Just something about his walk but that has nothing to do with his play.

I think he is a better tackler than Hooker but I've seen Hooker even bring more pop. 

Which is why he is behind Hooker but still a possible pro bowl level player in my mind. 

[BleedTheClock]

53 minutes ago, mtmmike said:

So bleed if you are drafting who do you take?

Like for what team? Cleveland?

 

I'd take Derwin James over Fitzpatrick. Fitzpatrick is more of a traditional FS, but James is more than athletic enough to play FS. It's just not tailored to his strengths. Given the reality of our safety situation, I wouldn't take either in the top 10 as we have other needs that can be addressed before FS. People want to blame Peppers for his lack of production, but he's lining up 30 yards off the ball. He's not going to make a ton of plays that far away from the LOS. And Kindred has been a fine SS for us this season.

[Scoundrel]

I have many more safeties to watch however.

[Ozzy]

26 minutes ago, Counselor said:

I actually have Elliott as a top ten player in this draft currently. His play recognition can make him a pro bowl player at the next level combined with the other attributes I listed above. 

Elliott I doubt is a top 10 pick in the draft.  Has had a great year but did not do much the two years before this one.  Would like to see more out of him and to return to school but obviously is not.   Sure did show up with his ball skills this season.  Is in no way better than Fitzpatrick as a deep coverage safety though, Fitz is a top 10 pick not Elliott I feel.  Could also argue Jaquan Johnson is a better prospect than Elliott as well because he is a better tackler, more physical and is just as athletic and has just as good of ball skills.  Duke Dawson could be a very interesting safety as well if he does not stick to corner, very impressive coverage skills of course and can tackle when needed, but again might stick to corner.  

Deatrick Nichols I think could be a nice FS but most likely will be more of a slot corner potentially, love his ability to tackle though and is really tough for his size.  And MJ Stewart who has really had kind of a disappointing career has a lot of talent and being moved back to a safety might really help him, physically he is an impressive solid defensive back and could be good as a safety instead of a corner.  

 

 

I view all of these guys as more in the box safeties better around the line of scrimmage and better tackling.  James is a great athlete but his ball skills are some what questionable, and is obviously better around the line of scrimmage making plays.  Blanding is a tackling machine, has had over 115 tackles for four freaking years in a row and did so while playing deep safety at times coming down all that way to make plays still.  Would be better around the line of scrimmage more consistently and his top end speed might be in question but kid can tackle for sure.  Same with Allen who is questionable in coverage but a heck of a tackler and Hansen is like a linebacker in terms of size and strength back there at safety, same with White.  Jonathan Cook is a very physical player as well, good hitter for sure.

 

It is disappointing James is not playing in the bowl game, especially with how the season has went for them.  Think he would want to play one more time instead of work on his 40 time.  Sure the entire Jaylon Smith thing could happen but ultimately if you can play you can play, sure might lose out on some money up front if you get hurt, but if you are a good player you will gain that back in the 2nd contract and beyond.  Really doubt Sean Taylor would said, hey I am not going to play in my bowl game and instead prepare for the NFL draft as a potential top 5 pick.  Just seems odd for a competitor to do that in any situation unless they are straight up injured quite badly....

[Scoundrel]

19 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Elliott I doubt is a top 10 pick in the draft.  Has had a great year but did not do much the two years before this one.  Would like to see more out of him and to return to school but obviously is not.   Sure did show up with his ball skills this season.  Is in no way better than Fitzpatrick as a deep coverage safety though, Fitz is a top 10 pick not Elliott I feel.  Could also argue Jaquan Johnson is a better prospect than Elliott as well because he is a better tackler, more physical and is just as athletic and has just as good of ball skills.  Duke Dawson could be a very interesting safety as well if he does not stick to corner, very impressive coverage skills of course and can tackle when needed, but again might stick to corner.  

Deatrick Nichols I think could be a nice FS but most likely will be more of a slot corner potentially, love his ability to tackle though and is really tough for his size.  And MJ Stewart who has really had kind of a disappointing career has a lot of talent and being moved back to a safety might really help him, physically he is an impressive solid defensive back and could be good as a safety instead of a corner.  

 

 

I view all of these guys as more in the box safeties better around the line of scrimmage and better tackling.  James is a great athlete but his ball skills are some what questionable, and is obviously better around the line of scrimmage making plays.  Blanding is a tackling machine, has had over 115 tackles for four freaking years in a row and did so while playing deep safety at times coming down all that way to make plays still.  Would be better around the line of scrimmage more consistently and his top end speed might be in question but kid can tackle for sure.  Same with Allen who is questionable in coverage but a heck of a tackler and Hansen is like a linebacker in terms of size and strength back there at safety, same with White.  Jonathan Cook is a very physical player as well, good hitter for sure.

 

It is disappointing James is not playing in the bowl game, especially with how the season has went for them.  Think he would want to play one more time instead of work on his 40 time.  Sure the entire Jaylon Smith thing could happen but ultimately if you can play you can play, sure might lose out on some money up front if you get hurt, but if you are a good player you will gain that back in the 2nd contract and beyond.  Really doubt Sean Taylor would said, hey I am not going to play in my bowl game and instead prepare for the NFL draft as a potential top 5 pick.  Just seems odd for a competitor to do that in any situation unless they are straight up injured quite badly....

I meant to put top 15 which I edited before. Also just because I have a player as a top 15 player in a draft I did not say pick. I also meant currently. I doubt he goes there either because of positional need and so on. I like Fitzpatrick more also but I don't know where teams are going to play him. I still have a lot of evaluation to do. But I like Elliott's potential.

[Rich7sena]

59 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

I'd take Derwin James over Fitzpatrick. Fitzpatrick is more of a traditional FS, but James is more than athletic enough to play FS. It's just not tailored to his strengths. Given the reality of our safety situation, I wouldn't take either in the top 10 as we have other needs that can be addressed before FS. People want to blame Peppers for his lack of production, but he's lining up 30 yards off the ball. He's not going to make a ton of plays that far away from the LOS. And Kindred has been a fine SS for us this season.

I keep seeing this opinion but from what I've seen Fitzpatrick plays strong safety for Alabama. He's also listed as SS on Ourlads.

[Scoundrel]

3 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

I keep seeing this opinion but from what I've seen Fitzpatrick plays strong safety for Alabama. He's also listed as SS on Ourlads.

Fitzpatrick is a stud. He is my number one DB. He is physical can cover and make plays. Just don't know where teams see him playing which is why I can't list him yet  as a safety in my rankings but he is a top 3 player for me.

[BleedTheClock]

2 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

I keep seeing this opinion but from what I've seen Fitzpatrick plays strong safety for Alabama. He's also listed as SS on Ourlads.

They run a 3-4 at Bama. In that system, both safeties are interchangeable as your extra LB safety depends on which edge OLB you are going to send. I can't imagine they use Ronnie Harrison as a FS and Fitzpatrick as the SS given Harrison is built like a tank and Fitzpatrick is built like a FS and played CB.

[Scoundrel]

I like Harrison also and what he can bring in the box. It is a very good Safety class once again. 

[BleedTheClock]

But to your point Rich7, I think he's a pure FS as an NFL prospect. He's not bad around the LOS, but he's not taking on blocks or murking dudes like Todd Gurley and Leonard Fournette at the LOS in the NFL.

[BleedTheClock]

2 minutes ago, Counselor said:

I like Harrison also and what he can bring in the box. It is a very good Safety class once again. 

Yeah he was a major standout for me every time I watched Alabama. Pretty solid in coverage too for being 6'3 and close to 220 pounds. He's not very agile, but is always in position and can absolutely murder you in run support or after the catch.

[Rich7sena]

@BleedTheClock I view Fitzpatrick as a nickel DB in the same vein as Micah Hyde and Tyrann Mathieu. In base he plays a more traditional overtop safety and in nickel he plays slot corner. Harrison plays overtop more often than Fitzpatrick, but Alabama uses Hootie Jones as their nickel DB/deep safety when both are in the box. 

[bananabucket]

1 hour ago, BleedTheClock said:

People want to blame Peppers for his lack of production, but he's lining up 30 yards off the ball. He's not going to make a ton of plays that far away from the LOS.

 

That's exactly why they need a real FS.   Why they think Peppers is a single high safety is beyond me.  I think Fitzpatrick would be an ideal pick.

[BleedTheClock]

 

Just now, bananabucket said:

 

That's exactly why they need a real FS.   Why they think Peppers is a single high safety is beyond me.  I think Fitzpatrick would be an ideal pick.

Peppers can play FS. He just needs to play it at 10-12 yards instead of literally 25-30. Is it ideal? No, but he can do it where Kindred can't. Both are good enough to start in the NFL, but they are both much better off at SS. I don't know if you can spend a top 10 pick on a FS when you have so many other holes on your roster, including an abysmal offense. Peppers is a B- FS in a regular defensive scheme and a B+ as a SS in a regular defensive scheme. Kindred is a C- FS and a B+ SS. It sucks that we can't have those two B+'s on the field at the same time.

[BleedTheClock]

5 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

@BleedTheClock I view Fitzpatrick as a nickel DB in the same vein as Micah Hyde and Tyrann Mathieu. In base he plays a more traditional overtop safety and in nickel he plays slot corner. Harrison plays overtop more often than Fitzpatrick, but Alabama uses Hootie Jones as their nickel DB/deep safety when both are in the box. 

I could see Fitzpatrick playing nickel. Micah Hyde isn't a terrible comparison, although Fitzpatrick covers in man WAYYYY better. But they should be used similarly.