2nd most important GB Defensive player for 2018 season

[squire12]

23 hours ago, squire12 said:

Let's have some discussion on the most important players on the GB Packers.  Going to break this down by offense and defense.  

I may not be able to submit a new poll every few days, so anyone can feel free to take up the mantle and continue.  No preference on whether it is Offense or Defense, just put something up if you feel the current poll and topic has run its course.

 

I think this leading defensive player question...and really the top 3-4 will be an interesting discussion. 

Previous poll 

 

1.  Kevin King

@Golfman might want to read the thread that is noted in the OP about the "most important ".

[Apex]

1 hour ago, Golfman said:

It's seems by the original post, already drew the conclusion King was most important and we need to select the second. Just a query and perhaps I missed the vote on the most important. 

Again, just not sure how anyone can see a guy who may not start as the most important defender. Keep in mind, I hope he starts and blows up big in year two. It's very premature for me. 

Gotcha.  I think if King doesn't win the job that's a worst case scenario for the Pack, although if he doesn't come out of camp as a starter he could work his way into the job.  Personally I think it's his to lose barring injury.

[squire12]

11 minutes ago, Apex said:

Gotcha.  I think if King doesn't win the job that's a worst case scenario for the Pack, although if he doesn't come out of camp as a starter he could work his way into the job.  Personally I think it's his to lose barring injury.

Posters voted for King in the previous thread.

[badgers0821]

5 hours ago, Golfman said:

It's seems by the original post, already drew the conclusion King was most important and we need to select the second. Just a query and perhaps I missed the vote on the most important. 

Again, just not sure how anyone can see a guy who may not start as the most important defender. Keep in mind, I hope he starts and blows up big in year two. It's very premature for me. 

I think there is a 1% chance King doesn't start on this team.  He looked good last year until he got hurt.

[Golfman]

6 hours ago, badgers0821 said:

I think there is a 1% chance King doesn't start on this team.  He looked good last year until he got hurt.

I have a hard time seeing him as the most important. I hope he plays at an all-pro level. I'm a big fan of his, but this is all premature for me. Just my opinion of course. 

Defense in general, we have 8 guys that could really make it into the top tier at their position among NFL peers. This is the most talent we've had on defense since we lost Nick Collins to a career ending injury. 

[Spartacus]

2 hours ago, Golfman said:

I have a hard time seeing him as the most important. I hope he plays at an all-pro level. I'm a big fan of his, but this is all premature for me. Just my opinion of course. 

Defense in general, we have 8 guys that could really make it into the top tier at their position among NFL peers. This is the most talent we've had on defense since we lost Nick Collins to a career ending injury. 

If you don't have a good #1 corner it steamrolls from there. The Julio Jones of the world will destroy you, a safety is taken from covering the whole field to one player, and the pass rush won't be as effective since the ball can be thrown earlier. We need King to step up and be the #1 if he turns our better than average it will have an affect on the whole defense. 

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, Spartacus said:

If you don't have a good #1 corner it steamrolls from there. The Julio Jones of the world will destroy you, a safety is taken from covering the whole field to one player, and the pass rush won't be as effective since the ball can be thrown earlier. We need King to step up and be the #1 if he turns our better than average it will have an affect on the whole defense. 

#1 CBs can't cover Julio Jones for longer than a few seconds. Pass rush works in conjunction.

[AlexGreen#20]

3 hours ago, Golfman said:

I have a hard time seeing him as the most important. I hope he plays at an all-pro level. I'm a big fan of his, but this is all premature for me. Just my opinion of course. 

Defense in general, we have 8 guys that could really make it into the top tier at their position among NFL peers. This is the most talent we've had on defense since we lost Nick Collins to a career ending injury. 

We have two guys who have shown capable of being top tier in the last two years, Kenny Clark only as a BIG not as a DT.

HaHa at a position so nebulous it's hard to separate stud from average most games.

This defense does not have top tier talent.

[JBURGE]

3 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

4 hours ago, Golfman said:

I have a hard time seeing him as the most important. I hope he plays at an all-pro level. I'm a big fan of his, but this is all premature for me. Just my opinion of course. 

Defense in general, we have 8 guys that could really make it into the top tier at their position among NFL peers. This is the most talent we've had on defense since we lost Nick Collins to a career ending injury. 

We have two guys who have shown capable of being top tier in the last two years, Kenny Clark only as a BIG not as a DT.

HaHa at a position so nebulous it's hard to separate stud from average most games.

This defense does not have top tier talent.

Clay in his prime was a top tier pass rusher. Nick Collins was a top tier safety. Charles Woodson was a top tier DB. Tramon Williams was a top tier cover corner. AJ Hawk tried his best

This defense has Mike Daniels as a top tier interior rusher, Kenny as a BIG, and like you said nothing else. Clay isn't there anymore, Haha had an average year, our corners are all inexperienced and unknown. Blake Martinez is the closest imo but even he is far away. Perry is our best edge rusher but even he is just above average imo. 

There is no way this defense personnel wise is any better than average TODAY. That can change, but @Golfman all of it is projection on the young corners and new scheme.

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, JBURGE25 said:

Clay in his prime was a top tier pass rusher. Nick Collins was a top tier safety. Charles Woodson was a top tier DB. Tramon Williams was a top tier cover corner. AJ Hawk tried his best

This defense has Mike Daniels as a top tier interior rusher, Kenny as a BIG, and like you said nothing else. Clay isn't there anymore, Haha had an average year, our corners are all inexperienced and unknown. Blake Martinez is the closest imo but even he is far away. Perry is our best edge rusher but even he is just above average imo. 

There is no way this defense personnel wise is any better than average TODAY. That can change, but @Golfman all of it is projection on the young corners and new scheme.

Clay was a top tier OPB but I'm not even sure he was a top tier edge rusher. Not in a world with Von Miller and Khalil Mack in it. Maybe you say he was in a down period before those guys emerged.

Daniels isn't a top tier interior rusher. Aaron Donald (and JJ Watt if healthy and qualifying as an interior rusher) is a top tier interior rusher. There's arguably even a class between Daniels and those two.

[JBURGE]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Clay was a top tier OPB but I'm not even sure he was a top tier edge rusher. Not in a world with Von Miller and Khalil Mack in it. Maybe you say he was in a down period before those guys emerged.

Daniels isn't a top tier interior rusher. Aaron Donald (and JJ Watt if healthy and qualifying as an interior rusher) is a top tier interior rusher. There's arguably even a class between Daniels and those two.

WIth Clay, yes, I think in 2011 he was in that premium tier.

And yes sure, Donald and Watt are in a league of their own, but Daniels is in the top ~7 interior rushers which I think would consider him "top tier". I'm not necessarily talking about HOF class players. I would definitely say Daniels should be considered in that tier with Fletcher Cox, Suh, Atkins etc

[Golfman]

5 hours ago, JBURGE25 said:

Clay in his prime was a top tier pass rusher. Nick Collins was a top tier safety. Charles Woodson was a top tier DB. Tramon Williams was a top tier cover corner. AJ Hawk tried his best

This defense has Mike Daniels as a top tier interior rusher, Kenny as a BIG, and like you said nothing else. Clay isn't there anymore, Haha had an average year, our corners are all inexperienced and unknown. Blake Martinez is the closest imo but even he is far away. Perry is our best edge rusher but even he is just above average imo. 

There is no way this defense personnel wise is any better than average TODAY. That can change, but @Golfman all of it is projection on the young corners and new scheme.

We shall see! I will leave it at that. 

[AlexGreen#20]

3 hours ago, JBURGE25 said:

WIth Clay, yes, I think in 2011 he was in that premium tier.

And yes sure, Donald and Watt are in a league of their own, but Daniels is in the top ~7 interior rushers which I think would consider him "top tier". I'm not necessarily talking about HOF class players. I would definitely say Daniels should be considered in that tier with Fletcher Cox, Suh, Atkins etc

I guess we're talking about the difference in tiers not caliber of player then.

[Scoremore]

Went with Clay at #1 going with Nick at #2.  We are thin at pass rusher these are the two most important guys.  It's mainly a depth issue.  We can cover other positions if a guy goes down but OLB we are vulnerable.

[Golfman]

2 hours ago, Scoremore said:

Went with Clay at #1 going with Nick at #2.  We are thin at pass rusher these are the two most important guys.  It's mainly a depth issue.  We can cover other positions if a guy goes down but OLB we are vulnerable.

I can buy into this thought process. I think in the original survey I picked the #3 OLB as the most important player due to the availability of Matthews and Perry. Now, I remember the poll. Not sure who that #3. Two of these guys at the least nees to step up: Gilbert, Biegel, Donnerson and Fackrell.