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swede700

Raising the Barr even higher!

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Vikings linebacker Anthony Barr was looking for a new contract when the offseason got underway and nothing has changed as June comes to an end.

Barr told Nick Shook of NFL Media that he doesn’t feel there’s much more he can do to make his case for a new deal and that the next move belongs to the Vikings.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/25/anthony-barr-on-contract-its-on-vikings-and-id-like-to-get-it-done/

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I really wonder what he is asking for. Vikings wanting to see if he can keep up his high level of play for two years in a row?

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Barr: “I don’t really get into the numbers, it’s more about feeling valued and respected than the actual dollar amount. They kind of go hand in hand, I suppose, but I love being in Minnesota and I love my teammates. I want to be there long term. I’ve felt I’ve worked really hard, improved from my first day there to where I am now. I think I’m a totally different football player. It’s not really up to me. I feel like all the work I’ve done so far, you’ve got to go off that. You can’t really go off what-ifs or this or that. Let the chips fall where they may. It’s not my decision; it’s on them, and I would like to get it.”

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/25/anthony-barr-on-contract-its-on-vikings-and-id-like-to-get-it-done/

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2 minutes ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said:

Diggs >>> Barr

Diggs/Hunter>>>>>>>Barr

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7 minutes ago, TENINCH said:

Diggs/Hunter>>>>>>>Barr

Diggs/Hunter>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kyle the pizza delivery guy>>>>>>>Cliff the TCO janitor>>>>>>Barr

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I actually believe I'd make Barr the higher priority than Diggs.  I like Diggs a lot, but he's more replaceable to me than Barr.  For me, the order is Hunter, Barr, Diggs.  I'd like to see the deal with Hunter done early in training camp with Barr probably coming sometime during training camp or early in the season (they don't usually do deals in-season, but it wouldn't be unprecedented) with Diggs having to play the season out before an extension.  

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1 hour ago, disaacs said:

I like Diggs a lot, but he's more replaceable to me than Barr.

I disagree that Diggs is more replaceable than Barr. I believe coach Zimmer could groom a replacement for Barr way easier than the team could find a replacement for Diggs. Replacing Barr would likely take a first or second round pick. For the team to find a replacement for Diggs the team likely would have to spend one or two first round picks on busts as well as a few mid round picks. With that group they would have to hope to get lucky to find a guy that can be above average after a couple years of grooming.

The order I would sign these guys in isn't the same as the order of how important it is for the team to keep them, but if it was my show to run I would rate the importance of keeping both Diggs and Hunter over the importance of keeping Barr. Sheldon Richardson and Trae Waynes need to be part of the plan. Signing all of them may not be a viable option so I would want to save some flexibility to sign give Richardson to a four year deal if things are working out with him. The way to save flexibility would be not signing more than one of Hunter, Diggs, or Barr before the season. I could see Richardson playing his way into being a more important player to keep than Barr.

I believe that Zimmer can turn quite a few LBers with high end athleticism into very nice LBers if Richardson works out; the LBers would be playing behind Joseph and Richardson.

I like Barr a lot and would love to see him him stay with the team for another five year contract. Having more good players than a team is able to keep is a nice problem to have. There is a lot better chance that Waynes will be the odd many out than any of the rest of them.

Edited by Cearbhall

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Diggs is one of the best players in the league at one of the most valuable positions in the game. He’s more comparable to Rhodes or Griffen than Barr. Letting him go would hamstring the offense and waste much of the potential value of the Cousins signing. He’s going to be very expensive (my math says ballpark of $15M AAV), but he’s worth it IMO.

I like Barr a lot and would be completely on board with extending him on a similar deal to what Kendricks got, maybe with a bit of a premium above that, say $11M AAV. But if he wants to get paid like a star 3-4 OLB pass rusher, no thanks. 

Replacing Barr wouldn’t be easy but nowhere near impossible. For instance this year Lorenzo Carter from Georgia, a comparable athlete and solid prospect, went 66th overall. 

Vikings shouldn’t even consider extending Waynes if Hughes pans out.

Richardson is a nice idea in theory but needs to show he can produce in the system first and indicate he wants to stay. I wouldn’t budget anything for him yet. 

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17 minutes ago, Krauser said:

Richardson is a nice idea in theory but needs to show he can produce in the system first and indicate he wants to stay. I wouldn’t budget anything for him yet. 

Agreed. He needs to show he can produce and he needs to want to be with the team. There is a considerable chance that he'll move on from the Vikings after '18 for one reason or another. I wouldn't budget anything for him but would want to put some flexibility into the plan in case things are working out for Richardson. Locking too many players down before the season would limit the option. Like the team would have had with Sharrif Floyd, the team needs to keep the option open to keep Richardson if things work out well.

Basically, I would be trying to keep four of Diggs, Hunter, Barr, Richardson, and Waynes and I would be looking to base the decision on exactly which of them somewhat on what happens this year. Getting Diggs or Hunter (possibly both) signed before the season seems like a safe bet. Richardson and Waynes will both be dependent on what happens this year (both how they play as well as how the guys behind them play). Barr is the guy in the middle that I would hold off on to allow for flexibility.

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7 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

Basically, I would be trying to keep four of Diggs, Hunter, Barr, Richardson, and Waynes

Might only be able to afford 3 of them long term, unless one of their other expensive veteran contracts comes off the books, or is renegotiated down (say, Griffen's cap hits get reworked and lowered gradually like Robison's did). 

9 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

Barr is the guy in the middle that I would hold off on to allow for flexibility.

I think Barr is a prime candidate for the Loadholt/Griffen treatment where the Vikings leave him unsigned until the tampering period before free agency next year, then decide if they're willing to match his best offer.

Barr might want to bet on himself and see if another team will pay him to be an edge rusher long term. If the Vikings give him enough snaps there this year to show he can or can't do it, that'll clarify his market. He might then be more willing to stay in Minnesota for off-ball LB money (Kendricks-ish) if that's his value on the open market, if he doesn't get the $13M+ offer he might hope to get if can prove his potential as an edge. 

I personally don't think anyone will be willing to pay Barr some cap-adjusted equivalent to Nick Perry or Melvin Ingram's deals as a 3-4 OLB, even if he does put up 5 sacks coming off the edge in nickel packages. He hasn't shown an ability to collapse or fight through OL blocks in the run game, and his pass rushing ability is mostly down to athleticism and timing blitzes, with only limited technique. 

Might be easier to convince Barr that he's getting a good deal if he make it to the brink of free agency and then finds that his best offer is a Burfict or Ogletree style 4-3 OLB deal (~$11M), so he might as well stay with the Vikings if they're willing to match it. 

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1 hour ago, Krauser said:

Might only be able to afford 3 of them long term, unless one of their other expensive veteran contracts comes off the books, or is renegotiated down (say, Griffen's cap hits get reworked and lowered gradually like Robison's did). 

I am hopeful that the team can keep four of them. There is little reason to expect the cap to suddenly flatten next year. An extra $10M on the cap would help quite a bit. If it comes down to it, I would opt for your "unless" clause and reduce costs on guys with a few more years of experience.

As things stand right now according to OTC the Vikings have over $17M in cap space left for 2018. $1.3M of that will be allocated to Hughes. The remaining is enough to absorb a $10M - $12M increase in salary for either Diggs or Hunter while leaving flexibility for in season moves. The team wouldn't be carrying much over but depending on injuries they might be able to bring a couple million cap dollars forward to 2019 where OTC currently lists them with almost $32M in cap room. Add on $10M in cap increase and the team could have $44M in 2019 cap room. Subtract from that the '19 cap space used for the 2018 extension of Diggs/Hunter and the team has around $38M to work with for the remaining three free agents and the blue chip offensive linemen the team should be thinking they may be able to bring in via free agency next year.

The offensive lineman to be named may cost around $5M of '19 cap space. That is what Norwell cost this year. $33M left.

Diggs/Hunter (whichever they don't get signed this year) could be about $10M in the first year. $23M left.

Barr could be about $12M. $11M left

Richardson may sign a Dontari Poe-like deal. That deal cost $5.33M cap dollars in the first year. $5.67M left for draft picks and other odds and ends.

Sorry Waynes, this plan leaves you out but there is room in the plan for you if Richardson doesn't stick for any of the several reasons he might not stick or things don't work out with Barr.

I can hear the complainypants now asking, "But what about 2020?"

Currently, the team has $56M free in 2020. That cap will have gone up an additional $20M if the current pace holds. Remmers ($6M) may be expendable as soon as next year after the team signs the free agent offensive linemen they should be leaving dry powder around for.  Everson Griffen's $12.9M 2020 cap charge may come down; he'll be 33 years old. Linval Joseph will be 32 and has a similar $12.9M 2020 cap charge.

I remain optimistic that the team can keep four of the free agents and sign a blue chip offensive linemen.

Late Add: Meanwhile, the team needs to draft well to continue backfilling the roster with cheaper, young, talented players. These are the roles from which Barr, Diggs, Waynes, and Hunter have filled so well in the last few years that they'll be stepping forward from. It is not sustainable to rely on second contracts for above average players at all 22 starting positions. Cheaper veterans like Terrance Newman and Joe Berger sprinkled in with even cheaper rookie contract players make it possible to compete while sustaining a core set of guys on expensive second contracts.

Edited by Cearbhall
Late Add

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I understand that Diggs is a great talent, but I still prefer the following order:

Hunter = Early camp

Barr = late camp (bring the cap $ down)

Richardson = late 2018 season (assuming production is good)

Diggs = beginning 2019 offseason

Waynes = not retained

Edited by CriminalMind

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55 minutes ago, CriminalMind said:

I understand that Diggs is a great talent, but I still prefer the following order:

Hunter = Early camp

Barr = late camp (bring the cap $ down)

Richardson = late 2018 season (assuming production is good)

Diggs = beginning 2019 offseason

Waynes = not retained

I think that’s what will ultimately happen. 

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