Vikings extend Danielle Hunter

[JaguarCrazy2832]

1 minute ago, Krauser said:

That's the whole point of a contract extension, pay for future performance.

I remember arguing with Vikings fans on the old FF site in 2013 who thought Griffen's extension was a bad deal at $45M/5. He hadn't shown he could produce as a starter, etc. Forbes or some business magazine called him the most overpaid player in the NFL. 

If Hunter stays healthy, no doubt in my mind he'll live up to this contract. 

Part of it is based on what you've done too though

[Arthur Penske]

8 hours ago, Krauser said:

 

It's a steal. Hunter would've easily been in the $16M+ AAV range (Chandler Jones, Ingram, Vernon) as a UFA next year . 

It may be a solid deal but Hunters clearly a tier under those guys.

[Krauser]

1 hour ago, ArthurPensky said:

It may be a solid deal but Hunters clearly a tier under those guys.

Sack totals, first 3 years: 

• Hunter 25.5
• Jones 23.5
• Vernon 18.5
• Ingram 6.0

Sack totals, last 3 years before contract extension (age in final year of previous deal): 

• Jones 29.5 (26)
• Hunter 25.5 (23)
• Vernon 25.5 (25)
• Ingram 22.5 (27)

[TheKillerNacho]

That's a really team-friendly deal

[Jakuvious]

3 hours ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said:

Here's the height/weight for all Vikings DE's on the roster from biggest to smallest.

6'6/270
6'5/265
6'5/260
6'5/250
6'3/273
6'3/259
6'3/258

Where is Hunter on there?

Let's name them!

Ade Aruna
Stephen Weatherly
Danielle Hunter
Tashawn Bower
Everson Griffen
Brian Robison
Ifeadi Odenigbo

I had NO idea 6'5/260 was considered UNDERSIZED!

If Hunter was a 3-4 DE where he's lining up inside, yes....I think he'd be about 20-25 pounds underweight but he's absolutely perfect size for a  4-3 DE

 

I can't find a single major source that lists Hunter at 260. Also your ordering of largest to smallest is....confusing, to say the least. A 6'3" 273 pound player is much bigger in this sense of size than a 6'5" 250 pound player. The latter has a much thinner frame than the former, due to being both taller and lighter.

Hunter is definitely on the lighter side by DE standards in terms of weight. Every major source I can find (NFL.com, Wikipedia, the Vikings own roster page, ESPN, etc.) all list him at 6'5" 252 pounds. Which is a bit lean for a 4-3 DE. He's taller than most DEs, but also lighter than most DEs, which can kind of doubly translate to being easier to push around (less weight across more space.) Now he isn't like....Robert Mathis levels of undersized. But he's more the size you'd look for to run a wide 9 or an old Tampa 2, not the size you'd look for to anchor in the run game. Though strength can offset that (Khalil Mack is a bit light for the role he plays in Oakland, but he's so damn strong it doesn't really matter.) So Hunter may be strong enough to make the weight not matter as much. I don't know, personally. Won't pretend to know. Just saying the weight is indeed below average.

[Sugashane]

This was an obvious one, but as a Bears fan this is crap news. I don't remember him getting sacks against us this year, but he was seemingly always in our backfield.

 

 

[Krauser]

5 hours ago, Jakuvious said:

Hunter may be strong enough to make the weight not matter as much. 

Yep, he is. 

 

 

 

 

[Vikes_Bolts1228]

15 hours ago, Jakuvious said:

I can't find a single major source that lists Hunter at 260. Also your ordering of largest to smallest is....confusing, to say the least. A 6'3" 273 pound player is much bigger in this sense of size than a 6'5" 250 pound player. The latter has a much thinner frame than the former, due to being both taller and lighter.

Hunter is definitely on the lighter side by DE standards in terms of weight. Every major source I can find (NFL.com, Wikipedia, the Vikings own roster page, ESPN, etc.) all list him at 6'5" 252 pounds.

Would you consider a "major source" Danielle Hunter himself on May 31, 2018? Roughly 28 days ago? Or do you want to go by websites that are probably a year+ out of date?

Quote

Hunter, who has 19 1/2 sacks over the past two years, spent the offseason working out in Houston with James Cooper, the trainer for former Vikings running back Adrian Peterson. Hunter, who has worked with Cooper since entering the NFL in 2015, said his weight — 260 pounds — is the same as last season but that physically he has made strides.

“I’m stronger,” Hunter said this week during organized team activities. “I’m much more quicker. Last year, I had put on weight (from 255 pounds in 2016), so now my body is used to it. … I went down there (to train in Houston), and I just focused. It’s as simple as that.”

https://www.twincities.com/2018/05/31/vikings-de-danielle-hunter-stronger-quicker-and-a-year-away-from-payday/

And if you're curious, the list went by height. It's nearly impossible to rank players by size. Sure 6'3, 273 is heavier than a 6'5, 260 player but everybody carries weight/muscle/mass different. Is 260 pounds of pure muscle bigger or smaller than someone who is 273 pounds has less muscle and slightly more fat? (not saying Griffen has any fat on him....he doesn't). 

Then you get into other factors. Would Hunter at 275 be as effective as he is at 260? Would adding 15 pounds of muscle and/or fat slow him down? Would taking away his biggest weapon (speed) be worth him being at the weight you think he should be at to meet NFL averages?

How about talking about height? Would Hunter being 6'3, 260 and more compact instead of be better than him being lean at 6'5, 260? Once again, he's probably losing a lot in speed and certainly losing in the "reach" department. I'm sure you know engaging your hands on a blocker first is very important to shedding blocks and getting to the QB/RB.

Then you consider that Hunter is still only 23 years old and his body will naturally put on weight/mass as he gets older so it's likely that in another 5-7 years, he may be closer to 270.

If you still want to call Danielle Hunter "undersized" at 6'5, 260....I mean go ahead.

[Krauser]

http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2018/06/projecting-danielle-hunters-next-five-years/

Quote

What does recent history tell us about Hunter’s potential sack production? Below are the players who managed similar or better sack numbers than the Vikings’ former third-round pick during their first three seasons.

Players under the age of 24 from 2000 to 2017 in their first three seasons

Player	Games	Sacks before age 24	Next five years…
Aldon Smith	43	42	5.5 total sacks (off-field issues)
Dwight Freeney	47	40	44 sacks in 70 games
Shawne Merriman	43	39.5	6.0 total sacks (injuries)
JJ Watt	48	36.5	39.5 sacks in 40 games
Von Miller	40	35	48.5 sacks in 64 games
Julius Peppers	44	30	51.0 sacks in 78 games
Jared Allen	47	27.5	77.5 sacks in 78 games
Justin Houston	43	26.5	43.0 sacks in 47 games
Andre Carter	46	25.5	27.0 sacks in 71 games
Danielle Hunter	46	25.5	?????????
Robert Mathis	45	25.5	48.5 sacks in 74 games
Chandler Jones	40	23.5	40.5 sacks in 47 games
Osi Umenyiora	45	22.5	46.5 sacks in 68 games
Frank Clark	46	22	?????????
Charles Johnson	48	21.5	42.0 sacks in 70 games
Cameron Jordan	48	21.5	38.0 sacks in 64 games
Olivier Vernon	48	21.5	22.5 sacks in 44 games
Jabaal Sheard	45	21	20.5 sacks in 60 games
Jadaveon Clowney	47	20	?????????
Justin Smith	47	20	30.5 sacks in 80 games

If we put Aldon Smith and Shawne Merriman aside for special circumstances, the average sack production of players with a similar start to their young careers as Hunter is 10.3 sacks per 16 games.

 

[Vikes_Bolts1228]

9 minutes ago, Krauser said:

http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2018/06/projecting-danielle-hunters-next-five-years/

 

adding onto that....

Quote

 

Head coach Mike Zimmer has pointed out sack production can be inconsistent from year to year. It’s pressure that is more predictive of future success. To that end, a closer look at Hunter’s 2017 reveals he was still highly effective.

According to Pro Football Focus, Hunter ranked 20th in Pass Rush Productivity among 4-3 defensive ends, which is simply hits, hurries and sacks per rush. He produced some type of disruption on 10.0 percent of his rushes — a nearly identical number to his teammate Everson Griffen, who had 13.0 sacks.

Hunter was credited with the fifth most hurries among 4-3 DEs, trailing only Carlos Dunlap, Joey Bosa, DeMarcus Lawrence and Melvin Ingram III.

 

Quote

 

The impact of hurries is significant. As you can see here, every quarterback in the NFL has a worse passer rating when pressured.

In 2016, his Pass Rush Productivity was only slightly higher at 11.5 percent, suggesting that Hunter’s play did not dip nearly as much as his sack totals would suggest.

Combining his last two seasons, the most comparable player to Hunter in terms of PRP is New Orleans star rusher Cameron Jordan, who totaled 79 pressures in 2016 and 74 pressures last year.

 

Also, doesn't playing on the QB's vision side make it more difficult to get sacks as well if the pass rusher is in the QB's line of vision compared to a blind side DE like Griffen?

Curious to know the answer there.

[KManX89]

Hell of a deal for a team with so many prominent 1st rounder's rookie deals expiring next year. Talk about a steal.

[vikingsrule]

2 hours ago, KManX89 said:

Hell of a deal for a team with so many prominent 1st rounder's rookie deals expiring next year. Talk about a steal.

Barr is the only first round pick with a deal expiring next year. Richardson I guess too.

the first round hasn't actually been very kind to the Vikes.

2015 - Trae Waynes (okay player)

2016 - Laquon Treadwell

2017 - no pick

Also missed on Floyd (injury) and Patterson in 2013 and Teddy left this year as a 2014 first round pick.

[SteelKing728]

On 6/27/2018 at 3:56 PM, JBURGE25 said:

I would go with Diggs over Barr 

Why is that? 

[SteelKing728]

On 6/27/2018 at 5:13 PM, Jakuvious said:

I'm kind of 50/50 on this one. I think it's a good deal for a player of his age and caliber. And he is a good guy to have locked up because he is younger than the core of Minny's defense. The one thing that gives me pause is that he seems more like a luxury asset as opposed to a core piece of the roster. He seems like the kind of guy that high end teams normally let walk, because some other team will pay them to be the headlining star of their defense while they're a 3rd or 4th piece on their current team. And if they can pay them all that's fine, in the end, but if it impedes their ability to resign Barr or Diggs or something, then I'd start to question it. Just weird to think that a team is paying $14.5M to the 5th(ish) best defender on their roster.

Griffen will regress sooner than later, given his workload and age. Hunter isn't a luxury re-sign. He was a priority.

That being said, if I had to choose, I'd re-up Barr first. Maybe that doesn't matter in the long run because we can still re-sign him(I think based on our cap), but that is my personal preference.

[Sugashane]

9 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said:

Why is that? 

 

With Cousins being there I think a part of the allure was that Zimmer will get talent to produce on defense, MIN isn't going to flip their defense to trash like the Emery/Trestman led Bears did. But I imagine Cousins, with so many suitors, wanted to keep weapons at his disposal, and Diggs is certainly a talent that would be easy to miss. He was likely a big part of the signing.

 

Just my idea though, I have literally no reference to support that.