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AlexGreen#20

Thoughts on the Offseason

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1 hour ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Your opinion is valid, but I don't think the issue in most fans minds is his status as a former Cowboy.

I think it is his attitude that most worry about. 

I've got my doubts given the open arms fans have for Wilkerson who was a toxic, locker room cancer in New York.  

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10 minutes ago, SSG said:

I've got my doubts given the open arms fans have for Wilkerson who was a toxic, locker room cancer in New York.  

I can understand that.

I just think that Wilkerson is lower risk since he has a defined role, isn't on a big contract, and has a coach that knows him and handled his situation successfully before. Wilkerson has never been in a functional locker room, as the Jets have had issues for years.  Just google "Jets locker room issues" and it becomes apparent that Wilkerson was a bit player in the Jets issues over his time there. I am not sure money is so much the issue with Wilkerson and his performance since he has already made 50 million, so the current issue is more about whether he loves the game and wants to play.   If he doesn't and he sucks we haven't lost much. The DL room has strong leadership so if Richardson is lazy and late for meetings it shouldn't have much of an effect.

I just remember Dez being a problem over ball distribution when he had a quality QB in Romo throwing to him.  I don't see him being happy sitting as the 3rd option behind Adams and Graham.  With a lot of young players in the WR room, I think Dez would bring an example of how not to be a professional.

Thus this difference- Wilkerson was never in a functional locker room before-and his potential negative effect can be limited in the Packers system.  Bryant could undermine the process of rebulding the depth in the WR room by exposing young players to the WR diva mentality.

Just my opinion.

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21 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Just my opinion.

Sort of

Its also the opinion of the coach who spent two years working directly with him on a daily basis.

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2 hours ago, Stevein2012 said:

Yeah with 117 more snaps.  That's like Davante playing over 2 more games with 0 yards or TDs AND he had a significantly better QB most of the season.  Adams was way better at getting open.  Adams is also quite a bit better after the catch.  Dez is not worth paying very much over the minimum and I kinda doubt that's the money he's looking for.  If you want an inefficient vet with declining athleticism who isn't a very technical WR you can get it without paying for it elsewhere.

We'll have to a agree to disagree.  I think you are greatly exaggerating the demise of Dez Bryant.  We've got horrid depth at WR and no insurance for Adams who has a rather scary concussion history.  When/ If Adams goes down I'd much rather have to depend on a guy with declining athleticism than a guy with no atlhetsim or a couple of late round rookies.

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7 hours ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

I can understand that.

I just think that Wilkerson is lower risk since he has a defined role, isn't on a big contract, and has a coach that knows him and handled his situation successfully before. Wilkerson has never been in a functional locker room, as the Jets have had issues for years.  Just google "Jets locker room issues" and it becomes apparent that Wilkerson was a bit player in the Jets issues over his time there. I am not sure money is so much the issue with Wilkerson and his performance since he has already made 50 million, so the current issue is more about whether he loves the game and wants to play.   If he doesn't and he sucks we haven't lost much. The DL room has strong leadership so if Richardson is lazy and late for meetings it shouldn't have much of an effect.

I just remember Dez being a problem over ball distribution when he had a quality QB in Romo throwing to him.  I don't see him being happy sitting as the 3rd option behind Adams and Graham.  With a lot of young players in the WR room, I think Dez would bring an example of how not to be a professional.

Thus this difference- Wilkerson was never in a functional locker room before-and his potential negative effect can be limited in the Packers system.  Bryant could undermine the process of rebulding the depth in the WR room by exposing young players to the WR diva mentality.

Just my opinion.

I  understand that opinion though I'm not advocating for a huge investment.  I'd want a similar commitment that we gave to Wilkerson.  I  don't think the risk of adding Bryant is any more severe than the risk of adding Wilkerson as there are young kids that his low character and laziness can rub off on.  Bryant has had his issues, laziness and low effort aren't any of those issues.  If anything, he's cared too much letting his emotions get in the way.  I'd much rather have  guy who cares too much than a guy who doesn't care about anything but himself.

Tony Romo's opinion of Bryant is one of the reason's I'd be ok with adding him.

Quote

"There's a ton of teams he could help," Romo said, via espn.com. "One thing, I don't know how many teams will do their homework on it, but Dez is a good teammate and I think sometimes that might get lost in the way that the emotional aspect of things.

"If I was talking to any of the GMs or coaches, I would tell them he's not going to hurt the locker room in any possible way. He's going to come out and he'll be a great teammate when he gets there. I think he'll have a couple options here soon."

I'm not all that worried about our WR/ TE room.  There are plenty of seasoned vets in there with Adams, Cobb, Graham and Lewis.  Just my 2 cents.  DA's scary concussion history and our horrid depth at WR scares me.  We've seen how bad this offense is capable of being when we are lacking talent on the outside (2015).

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I still don't think Dez would even sign here. 

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20 hours ago, SSG said:

No denying that Adams arrow is pointing up but that is mainly due to the QB throwing him the ball.  The difference between the 2 WRs 2017 isn't all that much.  Fans are talking like Bryant's career is all but over while ignoring the fact that he wasn't all that less productive than Adams whom I've seen some call a top 7 WR this coming year.  Bryant also didn't have a Jordy Nelson or Randall Cobb stealing attention.  Adams has rarely had to deal with a double coverage in his NFL career while its a weekly occurrence with Bryant.  I'm not saying that Bryant is a better WR or that he's going to be more productive.  Just pointing out the clear double standard.  IMO if Bryant wasn't a Cowboy the opinion of him would be vastly different.  Fans would likely view him in the same light as Jimmy Graham who looked awful last year.  The same people who are saying Bryant can't get open are ignoring the fact that Jimmy Graham was useless when not in the redzone.  He was easily covered by LBs and struggled to get any sort of separation regardless of who was covering him.  

Bryant probably wouldn't have looked great with Hundley throwing him the ball; and even if he didn't have a Nelson or a Cobb stealing attention, he did, however, have the second best running offense in the NFL last year taking off most of the heat.

I'm not sure how fans would view Bryant if he wasn't a Cowboy.  But fans' opinions aren't coloring the general league opinion held by every single GM in the NFL right now: Bryant has a lot of talent, but his inability to run routes, keep his ego in check, and tendency to come down with a case of the dropsies makes him a risky, overpriced candidate for a new contract. 

Adams is young but demonstrates an aptitude to improve, and he is extraordinarily quick off the line after the snap.  I'm not saying Bryant is washed up, but my money is on Adams.

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1 minute ago, StinkySauce said:

Bryant probably wouldn't have looked great with Hundley throwing him the ball; and even if he didn't have a Nelson or a Cobb stealing attention, he did, however, have the second best running offense in the NFL last year taking off most of the heat.

I'm not sure how fans would view Bryant if he wasn't a Cowboy.  But fans' opinions aren't coloring the general league opinion held by every single GM in the NFL right now: Bryant has a lot of talent, but his inability to run routes, keep his ego in check, and tendency to come down with a case of the dropsies makes him a risky, overpriced candidate for a new contract. 

Adams is young but demonstrates an aptitude to improve, and he is extraordinarily quick off the line after the snap.  I'm not saying Bryant is washed up, but my money is on Adams.

Completely agree with everything said here.  I'm not trying to talk down about Adams just pointing out that he wasn't all that more successful than Bryant last year.  While he did have to deal with Hundley for a little more than half his season he also had Aaron Rodgers for a little less than half (70 less snaps with AR12).

While I'm not going to pretend to know what GMs are thinking, its pretty well publicized that Dez turned down a 3 year, 21 million dollar deal.  Who knows how many other visits or deals he's turned down?  IMO, him not being on a team right now is because he's being selective for the right situation.  JMO though, I think he wants to play for a Super Bowl.   

My money is on going to New England.  

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10 hours ago, SSG said:

I've got my doubts given the open arms fans have for Wilkerson who was a toxic, locker room cancer in New York.  

A diva WR can be a lot more disruptive than a defensive lineman with a bad attitude. Someone like Dez Bryant can command a lot of media attention and can be a distraction for the QB and the other offensive playmakers. Terrell Owens was good at doing that. He was a great player so he always had a job. But I don't think Bryant is worth the headache. 

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Why the hell are people comparing Adams and Bryant.

You either hold the opinion that Bryant no longer has the long speed to play the boundary and that he has to play as a banger slot guy, in which case Cobb is the comparison.

Or, you think there's something left in the legs and you're comparing him to Geronimo Allison.

The closest comp in the league to the player that Dez Bryant is today is probably Jordy Nelson. They didn't get there the same way but you're looking at guys who are basically at identical career crossroads.

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6 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Why the hell are people comparing Adams and Bryant.

You either hold the opinion that Bryant no longer has the long speed to play the boundary and that he has to play as a banger slot guy, in which case Cobb is the comparison.

Or, you think there's something left in the legs and you're comparing him to Geronimo Allison.

The closest comp in the league to the player that Dez Bryant is today is probably Jordy Nelson. They didn't get there the same way but you're looking at guys who are basically at identical career crossroads.

We're not testing to see if the two WRs come from the same mold.  Not too many teams can carry two or three top tier salaried receivers every year.  So, the question is value.  

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2 minutes ago, StinkySauce said:

We're not testing to see if the two WRs come from the same mold.  Not too many teams can carry two or three top tier salaried receivers every year.  So, the question is value.  

Dez isn't going to be anywhere near a top tier receiver pay point. 

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11 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Dez isn't going to be anywhere near a top tier receiver pay point. 

Yeah, that was my point.  Adams has more overall value at this point in the two WRs careers.  If some team hooks Bryant on a lowball one year prove it contract, they can get good value from him, too. 

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10 hours ago, StinkySauce said:

Yeah, that was my point.  Adams has more overall value at this point in the two WRs careers.  If some team hooks Bryant on a lowball one year prove it contract, they can get good value from him, too. 

I don't think he's willing to sign a cheap enough deal to be good value. I don't think he's worth the deal the Ravens offered him.

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Dez probably has had plenty of one year low-ball offers at this point. My guess is he's waiting for the first big WR camp injury so that he can both have leverage and a solid guarantee that he'll see volume of targets. 

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