LeBron James to the Lakers 4 Years/$154M

[CWood21]

5 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

They could believe all they want, but there is no guarantee they do sign Kawhi next season. Maybe they are fine with that since the 2019 class is stacked, but you could take all risks out of it by getting it done now. I know Ingram hasn't been put on the table, I never said he was offered but he should. You don't really need him if you have Kawhi and LeBron and Kuzma. That is the type of risk you should gladly take. You are getting Kawhi for the long term and this is a top 5 player in the game. Sure Ingram may have nice potential, but is he ever going to get on Kawhi's level? Is it worth dragging this out and hoping you sign him in the offseason? 

And giving up Derozan+OG+Pick is better than what the Lakers could offer if they aren't offering Ingram or Kuzma at the moment.

You're right, there's no guarantee.  But if you're going to operate under that assumption, there's no guaranteed that he'll re-sign with the Lakers if they trade for him.  So if you're the Lakers, are you going to risk mortgaging your future and present on that?  No.  Especially when teams aren't even coming anywhere near a package based around Brandon Ingram. You say that the Lakers don't need Brandon Ingram, but you need as many players to throw at the Warriors.  A LeBron/Kawhi/Ingram trio is exponentially more valuable than a LeBron/Kawhi duo.  Kawhi doesn't make them a significantly bigger title contender, so giving up your future and future leverage doesn't help the Lakers, it actually hurts the Lakers.

And I'd agree that the Raptors probably are the best offer on the table.  And it's an offer that I think only the Raptors would make given their situation.  Best case scenario, they're probably the 3rd best team at best in the East besides Boston and Philadelphia.  That's a gamble worth making.

[showtime]

12 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

And giving up Derozan+OG+Pick is better than what the Lakers could offer if they aren't offering Ingram or Kuzma at the moment.

I'm just guessing here, but I'm assuming the Lakers would be willing to give up Ingram or Kuzma.  They probably don't want to give up both and I'm sure the Spurs want both + more.  As far as the DeRozan deal, the thing is, he's a treadmill piece, IMO.  He's a significant downgrade from Leonard, but the thing about DeRozan is that he is who he is. He doesn't really have potential to get better.  I would rather have Ingram over DeRozan.

[J-ALL-DAY]

I don't think that is the best case scenario at all. They could absolutely be a top 2 team with Leonard. Lets not forget just how much of a beast this guy was before his injury.

But you can pretty much guarantee he will re-sign with the Lakers. That is different in saying he won't re-sign with the Raptors. It is unlikely he re-signs with the Raptors, but still no guarantee. But it as close to an guarantee as you can have that he will re-sign with the Lakers if he is traded there. In theory it sounds good and all to play it out with what they have this year and then go for it next year when a guy like Leonard comes, but if you trade for Kawhi this year, then there won't be no learning process the following season. The Lakers could hit the season guns and blazing and will instantly be a monster from game one in 2019-2020. I just think if it is possible for the Lakers to get Kawhi by trading Ingram but keeping Kuzma/Hart, you do that. Some how make it work . Pelinka is a smart guy, he will be able to get the salaries to match. Maybe he waits until December or January to make it happen when you can trade guys like KCP/Lance/Rondo. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

Just now, showtime said:

I'm just guessing here, but I'm assuming the Lakers would be willing to give up Ingram or Kuzma.  They probably don't want to give up both and I'm sure the Spurs want both + more.  As far as the DeRozan deal, the thing is, he's a treadmill piece, IMO.  He's a significant downgrade from Leonard, but the thing about DeRozan is that he is who he is. He doesn't really have potential to get better.  I would rather have Ingram over DeRozan.

Except according to every report the Lakers haven't made Ingram available and then all of a sudden something came out two weeks ago that they pulled Kuzma off the table as well. 

[showtime]

Just now, J-ALL-DAY said:

Except according to every report the Lakers haven't made Ingram available and then all of a sudden something came out two weeks ago that they pulled Kuzma off the table as well. 

Well, if that's the case then what the hell are they trying to trade for Leonard then?  Haha.  I guess that means they've pulled out and aren't trying to trade for Leonard anymore.

[J-ALL-DAY]

Just now, showtime said:

Well, if that's the case then what the hell are they trying to trade for Leonard then?  Haha.  I guess that means they've pulled out and aren't trying to trade for Leonard anymore.

That's the thing, they have pretty much given up on trading for him according to Windhorst. Like Hart seems like he is going to be a very nice player, but you aren't getting Leonard with a package around Hart lol. This whole time Windhorst had said if the Lakers are willing to bring Ingram to the table, the Spurs will gladly be ready to make a deal. And them wanting Kuzma/Ingram/Hart/picks is just posturing. They are demanding A LOT, while the Lakers are offering very little. Just so they could  make it seem like they met in the middle and eventually get it done involving mainly Ingram and POSSIBLY Hart. 

[CWood21]

11 minutes ago, showtime said:

I'm just guessing here, but I'm assuming the Lakers would be willing to give up Ingram or Kuzma.  They probably don't want to give up both and I'm sure the Spurs want both + more.  As far as the DeRozan deal, the thing is, he's a treadmill piece, IMO.  He's a significant downgrade from Leonard, but the thing about DeRozan is that he is who he is. He doesn't really have potential to get better.  I would rather have Ingram over DeRozan.

I think they were willing to deal Kyle Kuzma, at least earlier in the offseason.  But at this point, the Lakers have clearly moved on.

[CWood21]

12 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

I don't think that is the best case scenario at all. They could absolutely be a top 2 team with Leonard. Lets not forget just how much of a beast this guy was before his injury.

But you can pretty much guarantee he will re-sign with the Lakers. That is different in saying he won't re-sign with the Raptors. It is unlikely he re-signs with the Raptors, but still no guarantee. But it as close to an guarantee as you can have that he will re-sign with the Lakers if he is traded there. In theory it sounds good and all to play it out with what they have this year and then go for it next year when a guy like Leonard comes, but if you trade for Kawhi this year, then there won't be no learning process the following season. The Lakers could hit the season guns and blazing and will instantly be a monster from game one in 2019-2020. I just think if it is possible for the Lakers to get Kawhi by trading Ingram but keeping Kuzma/Hart, you do that. Some how make it work . Pelinka is a smart guy, he will be able to get the salaries to match. Maybe he waits until December or January to make it happen when you can trade guys like KCP/Lance/Rondo. 

We were talking about the Raptors as is.  They're the 3rd best team in the East behind a healthy Boston and Philadelphia team.  Even if LeBron James is out of the East, there's still the huge obstacle to overcome.  Add on the fact that the Raptors are financially restricted, no notable young assets, or significant draft picks to maneuver with.  That's a deal that the Raptors should jump at.

So...you can guarantee that he'll re-sign with the Lakers, but you can't guarantee that he'll sign if he's dealt to Toronto?  That makes absolutely no sense.  Either it's Los Angeles or bust OR it's not.  There's no, well he's guaranteed to re-sign if he comes to the Lakers and no guarantee if he's dealt elsewhere.  But the Lakers feel pretty confident they're landing Kawhi.  And if for some weird reason that Kawhi opts to remain in Toronto, there is plenty of other notable FAs available.  It's not Kawhi or bust.  There's going to be a learning process regardless of whether or not they add in Kawhi.  Aside from KCP and their young core (Ingram/Hart/Kuzma/Ball), they're pretty much a different team.  Rajon Rondo, LeBron James, Lance Stephenson, and their options at C are all new.  And Julius Randle is gone now too.  If you don't think there's a growing curve with a Kawhi addition, you're mistaken.  And adding Kawhi next offseason only creates how to assimilate Kawhi into their roster, which probably takes a couple of months at most.

Either way, if a deal is done closer to the deadline you can pretty much guarantee that Brandon Ingram won't be dealt.  Probably won't get Kyle Kuzma either.

[CWood21]

16 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Except according to every report the Lakers haven't made Ingram available and then all of a sudden something came out two weeks ago that they pulled Kuzma off the table as well. 

Because the Spurs are still adamant about their Ingram, Kuzma, and multiple FRPs.  They're wasting the Lakers time if they're going to keep up that demand.

[CWood21]

13 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

That's the thing, they have pretty much given up on trading for him according to Windhorst. Like Hart seems like he is going to be a very nice player, but you aren't getting Leonard with a package around Hart lol. This whole time Windhorst had said if the Lakers are willing to bring Ingram to the table, the Spurs will gladly be ready to make a deal. And them wanting Kuzma/Ingram/Hart/picks is just posturing. They are demanding A LOT, while the Lakers are offering very little. Just so they could  make it seem like they met in the middle and eventually get it done involving mainly Ingram and POSSIBLY Hart. 

So...the Lakers should pay more than anyone else by a country mile?  Brandon Ingram is exponentially more valuable than anyone else being proposed at this point.

[J-ALL-DAY]

If you want to say you can't guarantee Leonard will re-sign with the Lakers, then fair. But there is still a better shot of that happening then him not for sure re-signing with Toronto if he is dealt there. Keep going back to the Jalen Rose quote about PG, great players don't want to play on three teams in three years. And I am talking about the Raptors. They aren't a lock to be the 3rd best team in the East with Leonard. 

5 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Because the Spurs are still adamant about their Ingram, Kuzma, and multiple FRPs.  They're wasting the Lakers time if they're going to keep up that demand.

And the Lakers are wasting the Spurs time by not offering Ingram or Kuzma. And the Lakers not offering Ingram has nothing to do with the Spurs trade demands. The Lakers can offer Ingram without offering Kuzma. 

 

5 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

So...the Lakers should pay more than anyone else by a country mile?  Brandon Ingram is exponentially more valuable than anyone else being proposed at this point.

By a country mile? If it gets you Leonard this year and gives you a shot to win it all? Then yes. Ingram we think will be really good, but Leonard we know is a superstar and top 5 player in the game. I don't consider Ingram plus picks a crazy offer. Derozan/OG+Picks is not that far off from just Ingram and picks. I mean you definitely take Ingram for six years over OG for four-five plus Derozan for two years, but getting Kawhi without Hart and Kuzman would be great for the Lakers. And like I said, the Lakers don't need him as much if you have Kawhi/LeBron/Kuzma along with guys like Ball and Hart. Plenty of shot creators and bucket getters. 

[kyle21121]

So Toronto might not even be the third best team in the East with Leonard? Like they could be 4th or lower like behind Washington and Indiana? Toronto doesn’t have any good young assets? Is that what’s being said? I just want some clarity. 

Look from Toronto’s end this is simple. Go for it go all in. Why not? This team is set for a rebuild in 2 seasons anyways I get that there is only like a 10% chance he resigns but still go for it. My only stipulation would be keep ONE of Pascal or OG and not give up both in a deal but I’m okay with basically any package at this point. Team is what it is something needs to be done.

From the Lakers end it’s like they want to either get him for 30 cents on the dollar or just wait a year and sign him because they are confident a PG situation. That’s fair. Why not? Because of PG last year? No no that won’t happen again Kawhi is a lock nobody was saying anything...ha idk you get the idea maybe Kawhi is a 100% lock for all I know.

From the Spurs end I really think they want to absolutely kill the Lakers and would only trade him there if it’s an unbelievable deal because Pop hates the Lakers and doesn’t want to give him there if it’s an unbelievable deal he’d have to do it. Also perhaps sending a message to Kawhi that the Lakers don’t even want you that badly and they’d let you go to Siberia...er...Toronto for a season. Just Pop playing some Pop games. 

[CWood21]

38 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

If you want to say you can't guarantee Leonard will re-sign with the Lakers, then fair. But there is still a better shot of that happening then him not for sure re-signing with Toronto if he is dealt there. Keep going back to the Jalen Rose quote about PG, great players don't want to play on three teams in three years. And I am talking about the Raptors. They aren't a lock to be the 3rd best team in the East with Leonard. 

I'm not sure what to tell you if you think that being traded to Toronto is somehow going to prevent Kawhi from leaving there.  He's expressed his interest in not being rented out, which is part of the reason why teams have been reluctant to trade for him.  At this point, Kawhi would prefer to choose his destination and not have to play out the season with a team he doesn't really want to play.  But given that he's currently under contract, he doesn't have that flexibility.  But Kawhi will have that opportunity a year from now when his contract expires.

And for the upteenth time, I've said AS CURRENTLY constructed, they're at best the third best team in the East.  Stop twisting my words.

40 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

And the Lakers are wasting the Spurs time by not offering Ingram or Kuzma. And the Lakers not offering Ingram has nothing to do with the Spurs trade demands. The Lakers can offer Ingram without offering Kuzma. 

Which is why the Lakers haven't really had any meaningful dialogue with the Spurs.  Right now, there isn't a team whose offering anything remotely close to the value of Brandon Ingram.  Sixers aren't dealing Fultz, and Celtics aren't dealing Tatum/Brown.  So whose pushing the Lakers to up the ante with Ingram?  I mean, the hypothetical trade with the Raptors is DeRozan, a combination of their young players (OG/Skiacam), and pick(s).  That's not a better package than an Ingram-based package, and a FAR cry from the demand that the Spurs made from the Lakers.  I mean, that package pales in comparison to the Ingram, Kuzma, and picks package that the Spurs reportedly demanded from the Lakers.  The Spurs have no intention of trading Kawhi to the Lakers.  None.  Which is why the Lakers have moved on.

42 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

By a country mile? If it gets you Leonard this year and gives you a shot to win it all? Then yes. Ingram we think will be really good, but Leonard we know is a superstar and top 5 player in the game. I don't consider Ingram plus picks a crazy offer. Derozan/OG+Picks is not that far off from just Ingram and picks. I mean you definitely take Ingram for six years over OG for four-five plus Derozan for two years, but getting Kawhi without Hart and Kuzman would be great for the Lakers. And like I said, the Lakers don't need him as much if you have Kawhi/LeBron/Kuzma along with guys like Ball and Hart. Plenty of shot creators and bucket getters.

No.  I don't think giving Ingram+ makes the Lakers anymore of a contender.  And I don't think switching Ingram with Kawhi makes them a title contender.  It improves their chances quite a bit, but it's not enough to be Golden State.  I'm not even sure it's enough to beat Houston if we're being honest.  We all know what Kawhi Leonard is.  He's a top 5 player WHEN healthy, and he's already demanded to be traded.  That sinks his trade value.  You're not getting anywhere near fair value for him, and you're certainly not picking and choosing the assets you want for him.  Patience is key for the Lakers.

[CWood21]

26 minutes ago, kyle21121 said:

So Toronto might not even be the third best team in the East with Leonard? Like they could be 4th or lower like behind Washington and Indiana? Toronto doesn’t have any good young assets? Is that what’s being said? I just want some clarity. 

Look from Toronto’s end this is simple. Go for it go all in. Why not? This team is set for a rebuild in 2 seasons anyways I get that there is only like a 10% chance he resigns but still go for it. My only stipulation would be keep ONE of Pascal or OG and not give up both in a deal but I’m okay with basically any package at this point. Team is what it is something needs to be done.

From the Lakers end it’s like they want to either get him for 30 cents on the dollar or just wait a year and sign him because they are confident a PG situation. That’s fair. Why not? Because of PG last year? No no that won’t happen again Kawhi is a lock nobody was saying anything...ha idk you get the idea maybe Kawhi is a 100% lock for all I know.

From the Spurs end I really think they want to absolutely kill the Lakers and would only trade him there if it’s an unbelievable deal because Pop hates the Lakers and doesn’t want to give him there if it’s an unbelievable deal he’d have to do it. Also perhaps sending a message to Kawhi that the Lakers don’t even want you that badly and they’d let you go to Siberia...er...Toronto for a season. Just Pop playing some Pop games. 

Since JALLDAY seem to be misquoting me, let me clear this one up for the air.  The Toronto Raptors AS CURRENTLY CONSTRUCTED are the 3rd bes team in the Eastern Conference IMO.  Both Philadelphia and Toronto are better teams IMO.

As for Toronto's assets, they don't have any blue chip prospects and their draft picks project to be late.  They're not needle movers by any means.

[kyle21121]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

Since JALLDAY seem to be misquoting me, let me clear this one up for the air.  The Toronto Raptors AS CURRENTLY CONSTRUCTED are the 3rd bes team in the Eastern Conference IMO.  Both Philadelphia and Toronto are better teams IMO.

As for Toronto's assets, they don't have any blue chip prospects and their draft picks project to be late.  They're not needle movers by any means.

Fair. Minor disagreement with Raptors “definitely” being worse than Philly right not but it can be debated. 

I think OG, Pascal, Poeltl, FVV, etc are some very good young pieces I’m not sure they have the absolute upside of other players listed (Ingram) but to be like Kuzma or Hart are damn studs and OG and Pascal are meh is plain wrong tho.