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LeBron James to the Lakers 4 Years/$154M

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6 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

lol their guys weren't hitting wide open shots. If we had competent shooters, we would have been a lot better off. Our defense was a bigger problem than the offense, but our "shooters" were left wide open and continued to miss. Don't confuse incompetence with a schematic problem.

If I try to run the spread offense with dudes that can't catch the football, it doesn't mean the spread doesn't work. It means my players just aren't good enough. That's essentially what I'm arguing here. If your PG, SG and PF are getting wide open 3's, the scheme is working.

So you're telling me that the Cavaliers put a TON of shooters around LeBron, yet in 15 out of the 22 games they lost they weren't making open shots?  Either your shooters aren't as good as you're led to believe, or the strategy isn't as flawless as you are led to believe.  But the even bigger elephant in the room is the other end of the court.  Last year, Cleveland was 28th in opponents FG%, and were T-20th in opposing 3P%.  Compare that to the Lakers who were last year were 3rd in opposing teams' 3P% and 10th in FG%.  That's without any real semblance of a rim protector and no real elite defenders.  The Lakers are betting that a LeBron-based offense is going to be efficient regardless of whether or not you have enough shooters around them.  They're not going to give up defense for more shooters.

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Just now, CWood21 said:

He doesn't have to be a great shooter to be a great player, he impacts the game enough in other ways that he doesn't have to be a great shooter to provide value.  Lonzo shot 67% from the FT line and 41% in college, but only shot 45% from the line and 31% from beyond the arc.  So it goes back to one question, why did Lonzo shoot worse from the FT line in the NBA than he did in college?  It's the same shot.  I suppose you could make the argument about sample size, but you could argue that for both sides.  You'd imagine his career FT% will probably be closer to his college average than his rookie season.  That suggests there's either a mechanical issue or a medical flaw that affects the mechanics.  And college FT% is usually a good indicator of 3P% in the NBA.

I understand he impacts the game in other ways. But not in ways that mesh well with LeBron James is my point. He's not going to be an abomination with LeBron, but there are tons of other players in the league that fit MUCH better with LeBron.

We can argue whether or not we think his shooting will improve, but neither of us has any idea about that. So I guess we're in wait & see mode. No point in arguing it any further really, as there is no context to support either side. For every player that has improved their shooting, there are a similar number of guys who haven't. We'll have to wait.

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1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

So you're telling me that the Cavaliers put a TON of shooters around LeBron, yet in 15 out of the 22 games they lost they weren't making open shots?  Either your shooters aren't as good as you're led to believe, or the strategy isn't as flawless as you are led to believe.  But the even bigger elephant in the room is the other end of the court.  Last year, Cleveland was 28th in opponents FG%, and were T-20th in opposing 3P%.  Compare that to the Lakers who were last year were 3rd in opposing teams' 3P% and 10th in FG%.  That's without any real semblance of a rim protector and no real elite defenders.  The Lakers are betting that a LeBron-based offense is going to be efficient regardless of whether or not you have enough shooters around them.  They're not going to give up defense for more shooters.

Lol do you think that this Laker squad would have done better in those 22 games? It would look the same...if not worse.

Our defense killed us, but our shooters let us down even more. We didn't build the team to play defense. We built the team to try and outscore people--namely, Golden State. I'd never argue that our shooters were overrated. They most certainly were, especially JR Smith. His ineptitude offensively killed us more than anything else this season. Had JR not been an abomination shooting the ball and played more like his 2015-2017 self, we would have won probably 2 of those finals games this year...definitely 1. We never had a chance to win that series, but neither did any other team in the NBA's history. The GSW's are the best team ever assembled. Knocking any team for losing to them is pretty dumb.

 

If you think this Lakers team is better equipped to beat the Warriors, then I don't know what to tell you other than to have fun with that.

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6 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

I understand he impacts the game in other ways. But not in ways that mesh well with LeBron James is my point. He's not going to be an abomination with LeBron, but there are tons of other players in the league that fit MUCH better with LeBron.

We can argue whether or not we think his shooting will improve, but neither of us has any idea about that. So I guess we're in wait & see mode. No point in arguing it any further really, as there is no context to support either side. For every player that has improved their shooting, there are a similar number of guys who haven't. We'll have to wait.

So...because he's not a good shooter, he's a bad fit?  He's a strong defender, very unselfish with the ball, and he's a good rebounder for a PG.  And his USG% is ridiculously low for a PG.  Let's put this into perspective, James Harden was the "PG" with the highest USG% at 35.9%.  In comparison, Lonzo Ball's USG% was a 18.7%.  That's astounding.  There were 4 PGs who had a higher usage rate than Lonzo Ball.  Let that sink in.  Let's not pretend like the Lakers are running Smush Parker out there.  And yes, there are probably better fits next to LeBron.  How many of them are realistically acquireable and/or actually an upgrade over Lonzo?  Again, if we see even marginal improvements from Lonzo as far as shooting goes, this is a non-discussion.

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2 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Lol do you think that this Laker squad would have done better in those 22 games? It would look the same...if not worse.

Our defense killed us, but our shooters let us down even more. We didn't build the team to play defense. We built the team to try and outscore people--namely, Golden State. I'd never argue that our shooters were overrated. They most certainly were, especially JR Smith. His ineptitude offensively killed us more than anything else this season. Had JR not been an abomination shooting the ball and played more like his 2015-2017 self, we would have won probably 2 of those finals games this year...definitely 1. We never had a chance to win that series, but neither did any other team in the NBA's history. The GSW's are the best team ever assembled. Knocking any team for losing to them is pretty dumb.

 

If you think this Lakers team is better equipped to beat the Warriors, then I don't know what to tell you other than to have fun with that.

You CAN NOT outshoot Golden State.  We just saw Houston push them to the max, and probably was a CP3 injury away from winning that series.  We saw the Cavaliers try and outshoot the Warriors, and they got swept.  What's the difference?  Houston actually plays defense.  Houston wasn't an elite defensive team by any means, but they were good enough.

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2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

So...because he's not a good shooter, he's a bad fit?  

Pretty much. Especially because you don't have some dead-eye shooter out there to compensate. If you had Lonzo Ball and some deadly assassin that could shoot the ball, fine. But you don't. You don't have any real credible perimeter threat. LeBron James is now your most effective shooter. Hard to believe they use him off the ball or in the post when they'll need his 3-point outburst.

 

And there is no formula for beating Golden State. You can play all the defense you want on them, but if you don't have someone that can score at a high level outside of LeBron, you are toast. The Warriors played like crap against Houston. They turned the ball over like crazy and their guys couldn't make shots that they routinely make. Your defense will certainly help you compete, but ultimately, you don't have anywhere near enough firepower to beat that team. Even once in a 4-game series.

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4 hours ago, iPwn said:

You seem upset.

 

also - 

 

he painted over it because people kept vandalizing it. Is that really different than someone else painting over it?

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3 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

Pretty much. Especially because you don't have some dead-eye shooter out there to compensate. If you had Lonzo Ball and some deadly assassin that could shoot the ball, fine. But you don't. You don't have any real credible perimeter threat. LeBron James is now your most effective shooter. Hard to believe they use him off the ball or in the post when they'll need his 3-point outburst.

 

And there is no formula for beating Golden State. You can play all the defense you want on them, but if you don't have someone that can score at a high level outside of LeBron, you are toast. The Warriors played like crap against Houston. They turned the ball over like crazy and their guys couldn't make shots that they routinely make. Your defense will certainly help you compete, but ultimately, you don't have anywhere near enough firepower to beat that team. Even once in a 4-game series.

KCP is a career 38% shooter, Brandon Ingram shot 39% last year, Josh Hart shot 40%, and Kyle Kuzma shot 37% from beyond the arc last year.  They may not have an elite 3 point shooter, but they should be good enough in that category.  But if you think LeBron James is the best shooter on the roster, you're incredibly mistaken.  But somehow because Lonzo Ball was a bad shooter, the Lakers are bad shooters.

And no, there is no formula for beating the Warriors.  But we've seen how well throwing a bunch of shooters around works.  It doesn't.  In fact, the closest we've seen a team come to toppling the Warriors was the Rockets in the WCF, when they pushed them to 7 games.  And they didn't do it by outshooting the Warriors.  They had the ability to switch defensively.

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32 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

KCP is a career 38% shooter, Brandon Ingram shot 39% last year, Josh Hart shot 40%,

KCP is a career 34.5% shooter. Ingram made less than half the 3PTers that Lonzo did, so that is a super small sample size. Not sure Hart is gonna play a lot. And Kuzma had a three year career in college where he shot 30% from 3PTers. Not a lot of evidence that these guys are good shooters.

Edited by 11sanchez11

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1 hour ago, 11sanchez11 said:

KCP is a career 34.5% shooter. Ingram made less than half the 3PTers that Lonzo did, so that is a super small sample size. Not sure Hart is gonna play a lot. And Kuzma had a three year career in college where he shot 30% from 3PTers. Not a lot of evidence that these guys are good shooters.

Just say the Lakers are gonna dominate this year. It’s all this guy wants to hear. 

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2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

KCP is a career 38% shooter, Brandon Ingram shot 39% last year, Josh Hart shot 40%, and Kyle Kuzma shot 37% from beyond the arc last year.  They may not have an elite 3 point shooter, but they should be good enough in that category.  But if you think LeBron James is the best shooter on the roster, you're incredibly mistaken.  But somehow because Lonzo Ball was a bad shooter, the Lakers are bad shooters.

And no, there is no formula for beating the Warriors.  But we've seen how well throwing a bunch of shooters around works.  It doesn't.  In fact, the closest we've seen a team come to toppling the Warriors was the Rockets in the WCF, when they pushed them to 7 games.  And they didn't do it by outshooting the Warriors.  They had the ability to switch defensively.

You’re right. The Lakers are gonna win the title this year and evey year for the forseeable future. Only question is...who’s winning the MVP? Lonzo Ball or a completely new and revamped LeBron James? Done conversing with u. Enjoy your titles. 

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I don't think there is any chance the Lakers beat the Warriors this upcoming season.  Next season and beyond, I think they'll have a shot.  As far as this upcoming season goes, I think the Lakers are the second best team in the western conference.

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9 hours ago, showtime said:

I don't think there is any chance the Lakers beat the Warriors this upcoming season.  Next season and beyond, I think they'll have a shot.  As far as this upcoming season goes, I think the Lakers are the second best team in the western conference.

Yeah, I'm with ya on this. GSW will likely sweep through the playoffs again and go 5 games with Boston. But Lakers should finish 2nd on WC or atleast make the WCF.

 

10 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

You’re right. The Lakers are gonna win the title this year and evey year for the forseeable future. Only question is...who’s winning the MVP? Lonzo Ball or a completely new and revamped LeBron James? Done conversing with u. Enjoy your titles. 

Chill with your saltiness, man.  The plan Magic/Pelinka layed out for LeBron is not for him to play hero ball; pretty sure that's why he chose to come to LA other than the business aspect. He's on the record stating he likes Lonzo's game and they brought in a Rondo. They will handle the ball and Lebron will work the post and sprinkle in some perimeter shooting similar to the Raptors series. Idk why it's so hard for you to wrap your brain about LeBron changing his style of play later in his career similar to how Kobe and Jordan did it. Quotes, historical examples, and player signings all point to this and your argument is "Well he's not just going to change his style of play all of a sudden".

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21 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

Just say the Lakers are gonna dominate this year. It’s all this guy wants to hear. 

Ah yes, the "I don't have anything else to add, so I'll just be obtuse" argument.

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