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LeBron James to the Lakers 4 Years/$154M


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2 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Windhorst said the Lakers and 76ers have basically given up on getting Kawhi and that's why the Raptors are in the drivers seat. But I were them, I'd absolutely get rid of Ingram and picks for Kawhi. You don't really need Ingram if you have Kawhi. 

Ball/Hart/Kawhi/Kuzma/LeBron is a lethal line up on both ends. Ingram may be overkill if you have Kawhi and LeBron already to go along with the other youngsters. 

Why would the Lakers cave to the Spurs' demand?  The latest report has the Spurs wanting Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart, 2 FRP and the option to swap two more picks. That in itself is a HUGE overpay, especially given the fact that the Spurs don't have that kind of leverage.  But let's say the Spurs are willing to do a Ingram/picks for Kawhi package, what then?  They're pretty much tapped.  Lonzo Ball at this point has more value to the Lakers than other teams.  The Lakers can wait until next offseason, stretch Luol Deng if they can't trade him, and then sign Kawhi.  But the Lakers also have the flexibility to move Brandon Ingram in another deal for a potential 3rd star.  Kawhi isn't staying with Toronto, I can pretty much guarantee that.

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When did I say they should cave to the Spurs demand? Did I mention including Kuzma/Hart and two first rounders? I said throw Ingram in there plus picks and get it done that way. They don't have to throw in Kuzma and Hart in there. 

And sorry but you can't guarantee sh*t. You could assume he isn't staying in Toronto, but you don't know that for sure....No one does. 

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34 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Why would the Lakers cave to the Spurs' demand?  The latest report has the Spurs wanting Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart, 2 FRP and the option to swap two more picks. That in itself is a HUGE overpay, especially given the fact that the Spurs don't have that kind of leverage.  But let's say the Spurs are willing to do a Ingram/picks for Kawhi package, what then?  They're pretty much tapped.  Lonzo Ball at this point has more value to the Lakers than other teams.  The Lakers can wait until next offseason, stretch Luol Deng if they can't trade him, and then sign Kawhi.  But the Lakers also have the flexibility to move Brandon Ingram in another deal for a potential 3rd star.  Kawhi isn't staying with Toronto, I can pretty much guarantee that.

I will become his best friend. How could he leave

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1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Windhorst said the Lakers and 76ers have basically given up on getting Kawhi and that's why the Raptors are in the drivers seat. But I were them, I'd absolutely get rid of Ingram and picks for Kawhi. You don't really need Ingram if you have Kawhi. 

Ball/Hart/Kawhi/Kuzma/LeBron is a lethal line up on both ends. Ingram may be overkill if you have Kawhi and LeBron already to go along with the other youngsters. 

I think everyone would be willing to do picks and Ingram for Leonard.  The Spurs want way more than that, though.

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1 minute ago, showtime said:

I think everyone would be willing to do picks and Ingram for Leonard.  The Spurs want way more than that, though.

For now. But the longer this drags out, the less leverage they have. They will have to decide if they want Derozan for possibly two years plus OG, or Ingram for the next four-six years. They will probably settle for a Ingram+Hart+pick but the Lakers won't want to give up Hart who fits perfectly with LeBron and Kawhi. 

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9 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

For now. But the longer this drags out, the less leverage they have. They will have to decide if they want Derozan for possibly two years plus OG, or Ingram for the next four-six years. They will probably settle for a Ingram+Hart+pick but the Lakers won't want to give up Hart who fits perfectly with LeBron and Kawhi. 

I was just listening to someone who said the Lakers and Spurs pretty much can't do a Leonard trade straight up.  He said a third team would have to be involved to help with the cap and the Lakers cannot trade any of the players they just signed until December.

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3 minutes ago, showtime said:

I was just listening to someone who said the Lakers and Spurs pretty much can't do a Leonard trade straight up.  He said a third team would have to be involved to help with the cap and the Lakers cannot trade any of the players they just signed until December.

Of course it won't just be Leonard for Kawhi as the salaries won't match. But you would work around that. Lakers package a deal around him then it could still happen IMO.

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1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

When did I say they should cave to the Spurs demand? Did I mention including Kuzma/Hart and two first rounders? I said throw Ingram in there plus picks and get it done that way. They don't have to throw in Kuzma and Hart in there. 

And sorry but you can't guarantee sh*t. You could assume he isn't staying in Toronto, but you don't know that for sure....No one does. 

If both sides were amicable to a Kawhi/Ingram swap, don't you think it would have been done already?  Except that isn't the case.  Supposedly the Lakers haven't included Brandon Ingram in any of their trade offers, Spurs refuse to take on Luol Deng, and they continue to have an outrageous demand.  Why would the Lakers give up by far the most?  I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that DeMar DeRozan at 3 years, $83M is more valuable than Brandon Ingram at 2 years, $13M.  Sixers aren't willing to deal Markelle Fultz, and it's unknown if they're willing to dangle their '21 Heat FRP.  Celtics aren't willing to Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum, so they really aren't a possibility since it's nearly impossible to match salaries.

And you're right, I can't guarantee it.  But I feel incredibly confident that if it comes down to playing in Toronto with Kyle Lowry or in Los Angeles with LeBron, he's choosing the Lakers.  And I think there's maybe a 1% chance.  This isn't Paul George all over again.  Kyle Lowry doesn't have that same pull as Russell Westbrook.  That's a gamble that Toronto should make though.

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20 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

For now. But the longer this drags out, the less leverage they have. They will have to decide if they want Derozan for possibly two years plus OG, or Ingram for the next four-six years. They will probably settle for a Ingram+Hart+pick but the Lakers won't want to give up Hart who fits perfectly with LeBron and Kawhi. 

But why would the Lakers give up Ingram+ if they believe they're going to sign him a year from now?  The Lakers clearly have a reason to believe that he's coming to the Lakers next offseason, so why they'd like to acquire Kawhi Leonard they're not pressured to make a deal.  If this moves to the deadline, I don't see them getting more than Hart and picks to be honest.

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6 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Of course it won't just be Leonard for Kawhi as the salaries won't match. But you would work around that. Lakers package a deal around him then it could still happen IMO.

At this point, not without Luol Deng being included.  The Lakers have pretty much used up all their cap space at this point.  If you stretch Deng and trade Brandon Ingram, the Lakers can take up to $13.1M in salary.  Unfortunately, Kawhi makes $20.1M, which is $7M short of what they need.  So unless the Spurs suddenly show a willingness to take on Deng and his deal, Kawhi to the Lakers is dead for the time being.

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13 minutes ago, showtime said:

I was just listening to someone who said the Lakers and Spurs pretty much can't do a Leonard trade straight up.  He said a third team would have to be involved to help with the cap and the Lakers cannot trade any of the players they just signed until December.

Pretty much.  Luol Deng has to go out in any deal for Kawhi right now.

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5 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Pretty much.  Luol Deng has to go out in any deal for Kawhi right now.

Correct.  And also, the person was saying that the Nets all of a sudden have less cap room.  The Bulls all of a sudden have less cap room.  So there are less teams that can help with cap space now than there were about a week and a half ago.

I agree with you guys overall, though.  Eventually, the Spurs will have to settle for less.

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Here's a very important question.  Will Kawhi Leonard play for the Spurs?  He obviously wants out and he has held firm on that stance without wavering.  But if the Spurs don't trade him before the season, will he play or will he continue to sit out?

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They could believe all they want, but there is no guarantee they do sign Kawhi next season. Maybe they are fine with that since the 2019 class is stacked, but you could take all risks out of it by getting it done now. I know Ingram hasn't been put on the table, I never said he was offered but he should. You don't really need him if you have Kawhi and LeBron and Kuzma. That is the type of risk you should gladly take. You are getting Kawhi for the long term and this is a top 5 player in the game. Sure Ingram may have nice potential, but is he ever going to get on Kawhi's level? Is it worth dragging this out and hoping you sign him in the offseason? 

And giving up Derozan+OG+Pick is better than what the Lakers could offer if they aren't offering Ingram or Kuzma at the moment.

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2 minutes ago, showtime said:

Here's a very important question.  Will Kawhi Leonard play for the Spurs?  He obviously wants out and he has held firm on that stance without wavering.  But if the Spurs don't trade him before the season, will he play or will he continue to sit out?

I think he has to play enough to accrue another season.  Don't recall exactly what that would take.

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