vike daddy Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 oh my, an Ancient just schooled these whippersnappers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 What is the goal of every team at the beginning of ever season? Winning the Super Bowl. Stats are meaningless without that achievement. Dan Marino may have been more talented than Bob Griese, but Griese has the rings. And at the end of the day, in the ultimate teams sport, that’s all that matters. Who’s the better QB, Troy Aikman, Roger Staubach, or Tony Romo? Because the one with all of the stats is the one with none of the rings. Stats don’t equal greatness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 31 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: What is the goal of every team at the beginning of ever season? Winning the Super Bowl. Stats are meaningless without that achievement. Dan Marino may have been more talented than Bob Griese, but Griese has the rings. And at the end of the day, in the ultimate teams sport, that’s all that matters. Who’s the better QB, Troy Aikman, Roger Staubach, or Tony Romo? Because the one with all of the stats is the one with none of the rings. Stats don’t equal greatness. Why don't we meet halfway? Why don't we claim that statistics along with multiple championships (where the quarterback play has been determinative in those games) as the mark of truly great quarterbacks? With this as a standard, then there have been very few truly great quarterbacks in the league. I would argue maybe only three: Tom Brady, Joe Montana and Otto Graham. Some argument could be made for Peyton Manning, but he was truly a shadow of his former self his last season, as the defense won that Super Bowl. Some might say Troy Aikman's 3 Super Bowl victories should count, but except for his other worldly completion percentage, I don't believe he ever led the league in passing any season. Same for Terry Bradshaw. Staubach maybe should be considered, but I hate him to much to put him on my list!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisplacedViking Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 51 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: What is the goal of every team at the beginning of ever season? Winning the Super Bowl. Stats are meaningless without that achievement. Dan Marino may have been more talented than Bob Griese, but Griese has the rings. And at the end of the day, in the ultimate teams sport, that’s all that matters. Who’s the better QB, Troy Aikman, Roger Staubach, or Tony Romo? Because the one with all of the stats is the one with none of the rings. Stats don’t equal greatness. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Both my wife and mother tell me I'm handsome. My mom has dementia and my wife says it when I'm handing her money, but it is my right to believe them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 11 hours ago, SemperFeist said: What is the goal of every team at the beginning of ever season? Winning the Super Bowl. Stats are meaningless without that achievement. Dan Marino may have been more talented than Bob Griese, but Griese has the rings. And at the end of the day, in the ultimate teams sport, that’s all that matters. Who’s the better QB, Troy Aikman, Roger Staubach, or Tony Romo? Because the one with all of the stats is the one with none of the rings. Stats don’t equal greatness. So let's say Cousins, heaven forbid\not a jinx, breaks his arm late in the NFC Championship win. Two weeks later the Vikings win a low scoring Super Bowl with Siemian under center....does Siemian then vault to the best Viking QB ever? i would say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klomp Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hagar said: So let's say Cousins, heaven forbid\not a jinx, breaks his arm late in the NFC Championship win. Two weeks later the Vikings win a low scoring Super Bowl with Siemian under center....does Siemian then vault to the best Viking QB ever? i would say no. Well of course not. But that's not what we're saying either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 I’ll still say Culpepper. He was a fun guy to watch. Favre would be my number 2 but that’s basically because of his one year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Klomp said: Well of course not. But that's not what we're saying either. It's what is being said, at least, in what I quoted... "Stats are meaningless without that (SB win) achievement." "Dan Marino was more talented, but Bob Greise has the rings. And at the end of the day, in the ultimate teams sport, that's all that matters." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klomp Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Culpepper is probably the No. 2, just because his highs were so good. And as sad as it is to say, he had a longevity here that most of the others listed did not. Kramer had longevity, but not the stats to back it up enough to be at No. 2. It'd be like calling Sam Mitchell the second-best player in Timberwolves history, even though he built up his stats more due more to longevity than ability. I would agree with those earlier in the thread who mentioned that Brad Johnson merits consideration. His production here actually holds up decently well compared to these others, and has the longevity compared to others too. I think he has a strong case for No. 3, probably along with Moon and Favre. Tommy Kramer (110 starts)Daunte Culpepper (80 starts) Brad Johnson (46 starts)Warren Moon (39 starts)Rich Gannon (35 starts) Brett Favre (29 starts)Teddy Bridgewater (28 starts)Randall Cunningham (23 starts)Sam Bradford (17 starts) Case Keenum (14 starts) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klomp Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 47 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said: I’ll still say Culpepper. He was a fun guy to watch. Favre would be my number 2 but that’s basically because of his one year Wait, I thought Culpepper was your number 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klomp Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 9 minutes ago, Hagar said: It's what is being said, at least, in what I quoted... "Stats are meaningless without that (SB win) achievement." "Dan Marino was more talented, but Bob Greise has the rings. And at the end of the day, in the ultimate teams sport, that's all that matters." I don't really count split seasons, in regards to giving a QB all of the credit for that season. That's where I don't agree with your hypothetical about Siemian. Cousins gets most of the credit for that season, even though he wasn't there for the final game. He got them most of the way there. As for the Dolphins discussion, I would absolutely side with you if Griese was a bad quarterback. It's difficult to compare QBs from different eras. Marino has amazing raw stats, but the 80s and 90s were a different time than the early 70s. Griese held his own as the starter and was the guy in Miami for a long time, we're not talking about Brock Osweiler here... Griese played less than half of the 1972 season, so I'm not counting that in the discussion right now. In '73, he was roughly league average in completion percentage, but had a high TD percentage and was one of only three QBs with a 2:1 TD/INT ratio. Those numbers along with the Super Bowl win more than hold their own. Does the SB win automatically put him above Marino? No, but it puts him into the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 10 hours ago, Klomp said: Culpepper is probably the No. 2, just because his highs were so good. And as sad as it is to say, he had a longevity here that most of the others listed did not. Kramer had longevity, but not the stats to back it up enough to be at No. 2. It'd be like calling Sam Mitchell the second-best player in Timberwolves history, even though he built up his stats more due more to longevity than ability. I would agree with those earlier in the thread who mentioned that Brad Johnson merits consideration. His production here actually holds up decently well compared to these others, and has the longevity compared to others too. I think he has a strong case for No. 3, probably along with Moon and Favre. Tommy Kramer (110 starts)Daunte Culpepper (80 starts) Brad Johnson (46 starts)Warren Moon (39 starts)Rich Gannon (35 starts) Brett Favre (29 starts)Teddy Bridgewater (28 starts)Randall Cunningham (23 starts)Sam Bradford (17 starts) Case Keenum (14 starts) STILL no Joe Kapp on this list??? He had 40 starts as a Viking. Won the NFL Championship as a Viking. Led the Vikings to Super Bowl IV. Was the league MVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klomp Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 27 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said: STILL no Joe Kapp on this list??? He had 40 starts as a Viking. Won the NFL Championship as a Viking. Led the Vikings to Super Bowl IV. Was the league MVP. Just copied the list from the original article. Only added Johnson's starts to the list because I referenced him in my post. As for Kapp, his career 37:47 TD/INT ratio doesn't do him any favors and his best completion percentage was 52%. And just for full accuracy, he started 38 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 On 7/5/2018 at 9:16 PM, Klomp said: Wait, I thought Culpepper was your number 2? Little messed up how I worded that. Favre would have been my #2 if he could of kept it going longer than 1 season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/3/2018 at 7:44 PM, Klomp said: But to be the QB to win a Super Bowl here? I think it would go a long ways. You say "that's the class of QBs he's in".....so he's behind Philip Rivers now, who's passed him in those categories? I think Cousins could reach Philip Rivers status, sure. And Dan Fouts is still a better QB than Phillip Rivers is, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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