Training Camp 2018 discussion

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Just now, paraven said:

why would you hope that? its good to have options and if flacco is playing better the Jackson, its a no brainer to continue to play him

There's a lot of factors, but if we have another mediocre year where Flacco is his usual self (IE a bottom 10 starter), why would we continue to pay that salary when we could just roll with Lamar, save a ton of money doing it and just get started on our future rather that continue to plague ourselves with mediocrity?

[paraven]

1 minute ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

There's a lot of factors, but if we have another mediocre year where Flacco is his usual self (IE a bottom 10 starter), why would we continue to pay that salary when we could just roll with Lamar, save a ton of money doing it and just get started on our future rather that continue to plague ourselves with mediocrity?

so what if flacco goes out and throws for 4000 yards, and 25 tds, 15 ints. and the ravens make a deep playoff run. Do you still cut him loose after? I wouldnt. 

PS I totally expect flacco to have a better stat line than that this year too

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, paraven said:

so what if flacco goes out and throws for 4000 yards, and 25 tds, 15 ints. and the ravens make a deep playoff run. Do you still cut him loose after? I wouldnt. 

Like I said, a lot of factors and circumstances, but I would like to believe that unless he makes significant strides from last year or the previous like 5 years, he won't be back. Although from all reports right now, he's by far the best he's ever been so who knows.

I can tell you though that Flacco has thrown for 4,000 yards once in his career (2016) and had 20 TD's and 15 INT's that season and was not good. He's only thrown for 25 TD's once in his career (2010). If he manages to put up a 4,000/25/15 mark with an even respectable YPA this year, I would imagine it would be safe to call that a "career year" for him and he'd be back.

[paraven]

Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Like I said, a lot of factors and circumstances, but I would like to believe that unless he makes significant strides from last year or the previous like 5 years, he won't be back. Although from all reports right now, he's by far the best he's ever been so who knows.

I can tell you though that Flacco has thrown for 4,000 yards once in his career (2016) and had 20 TD's and 15 INT's that season and was not good. He's only thrown for 25 TD's once in his career (2010). If he manages to put up a 4,000/25/15 mark with an even respectable YPA this year, I would imagine it would be safe to call that a "career year" for him and he'd be back.

if you prorate his injury year (2015) he was on pace for something like 4500 yards. I think one year too he was like 8 yards short of 4k, so that counts in my book. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

2 minutes ago, paraven said:

if you prorate his injury year (2015) he was on pace for something like 4500 yards. I think one year too he was like 8 yards short of 4k, so that counts in my book. 

2014 is the year you're thinking of. He was 14 yards short.

Regardless, I would say that if Flacco has that kind of year and we make the playoffs, he's back. If he doesn't, and we don't - he's gone.

[paraven]

Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

2014 is the year you're thinking of. He was 14 yards short.

Regardless, I would say that if Flacco has that kind of year and we make the playoffs, he's back. If he doesn't, and we don't - he's gone.

ok, were on same page then lol

[M.10.E]

3 minutes ago, paraven said:

ok, were on same page then lol

If we get 2014 Flacco, he's back next year no doubt. He was great that year.

[paraven]

3 minutes ago, M.10.E said:

If we get 2014 Flacco, he's back next year no doubt. He was great that year.

i fully expect him too, last year was an outlier for his carer, much of which can be contributed to his back injury which IMO was severely downplayed. Plus add in the fact that perriman was slated to be his top go to wr last year. I dont know if brady himself could have won with that offense

[DreamKid]

Finished watching the OL over. 

- The strongest lineup was LG: Skura- C: Lewis- RG: Jermaine Eluemanor- RT: Orlando Brown Jr.

- Orlando Brown is starter caliber and will be our RT opening day. Head and shoulders above the other guys out there.

- Lewis was better than Skura at Center.

- Bozeman had a strong game. He floated between center and left guard and played good at both spots. He was switched on and plugged in with his teammates. I liked what I saw.

- Skura played better than I thought he would.

- Eluemanor was sturdy at RG all game. He was replaced by Siragusa with 8 minutes left in the game.

- Siragusa was alright. He didn't get many snaps and he had the day's toughest assignment Bilal Nichols. I'd like to see some more lateral mobility from him in next week's game.

- Crecelius and Shakir were the problem,......all night.

 

During camp they've experimented with Eluemanor at LT a couple times and consensus thought was he performed pretty good. I'd like to see that over Crecelius next game. James Hurst and Greg Senat were missed depth.

 

I also watched the DL over again and we should be excited. The entire group has improved as disruptors inside, they have a plan as they attack now.

- LaCouture received way too many snaps and I don't know why. He was the least effective of all our DL.

- Zach Sieler was an absolute beast. His game will definitely translate from the DII level, just as Brandon Williams did. He had only 13 snaps, rotating in for Wormley, Ricard, and LaCouture. On those snaps though, he produced. 2 tackles against the run, he's got some great stack and shed. He was close on 3 sacks. The first one Bennett Jackson got there just before him, The second he got through the entire line and had a swipe a hair away from the QB's leg, and on the 3rd he was one of three defenders to contact the QB and force the bad throw. On his 4th snap he was like an animal rocketing up for a Swat attempt, and came even closer on his 8th snap to getting one. If he senses he won't get home in time, just like Watt he is up in the air with his giant frame looking to bat the ball into oblivion. He stood tall on a double team one snap, and on his second snap he bulled 3 defenders like some hoes. The play went to other side but I enjoyed watching him handle them. I noticed lineman really like to stick a hand in his face to try and stave him off, a common tactic when physically overwhelmed. Sieler is super adept at getting skinny between offensive lineman, he's a true interior pass rusher. Ozzie's last pick is going to be around for a long time guys.

- Chris Wormley balled out. He was way above everyone's level out there. He's very educated on the inside and has a great blend of speed and power. We're going to see a lot of him this year.

- Patrick Ricard is a Pitbull. 'Pitbull' Patrick Ricard has a ring to it. He has a great gas tank and his up field explosion must be accounted for. He's undersized so against the run he can get caught up, but make no mistake he can bring it against the run too. He doesn't take any snap off and he's a super valuable piece for us. He's transforming into the league's top FB, but he has plenty to offer as DL depth. 

 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, paraven said:

i fully expect him too, last year was an outlier for his carer, much of which can be contributed to his back injury which IMO was severely downplayed. Plus add in the fact that perriman was slated to be his top go to wr last year. I dont know if brady himself could have won with that offense

Really?

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
Career					154	154	92-62-0	3267	5291	61.7	35780	200	3.8	130	2.5	95	6.8	6.4	11.0	232.3	84.1		317	2281	5.97	5.64	5.7	18	24	106
2008	23	BAL	QB	5	16	16	11-5-0	257	428	60.0	2971	14	3.3	12	2.8	70	6.9	6.3	11.6	185.7	80.3	42.7	32	276	5.86	5.29	7.0	1	1	11
2009	24	BAL	QB	5	16	16	9-7-0	315	499	63.1	3613	21	4.2	12	2.4	72	7.2	7.0	11.5	225.8	88.9	59.8	36	218	6.35	6.12	6.7	1	2	13
2010	25	BAL	QB	5	16	16	12-4-0	306	489	62.6	3622	25	5.1	10	2.0	67	7.4	7.5	11.8	226.4	93.6	60.1	40	294	6.29	6.39	7.6	2	4	12
2011	26	BAL	QB	5	16	16	12-4-0	312	542	57.6	3610	20	3.7	12	2.2	74	6.7	6.4	11.6	225.6	80.9	62.5	31	203	5.95	5.70	5.4	2	3	12
2012	27	BAL	QB	5	16	16	10-6-0	317	531	59.7	3817	22	4.1	10	1.9	61	7.2	7.2	12.0	238.6	87.7	51.1	35	227	6.34	6.33	6.2	3	3	13
2013	28	BAL	QB	5	16	16	8-8-0	362	614	59.0	3912	19	3.1	22	3.6	74	6.4	5.4	10.8	244.5	73.1	47.8	48	324	5.42	4.50	7.3	2	4	8
2014	29	BAL	QB	5	16	16	10-6-0	344	554	62.1	3986	27	4.9	12	2.2	80	7.2	7.2	11.6	249.1	91.0	68.2	19	167	6.66	6.66	3.3	2	2	14
2015	30	BAL	QB	5	10	10	3-7-0	266	413	64.4	2791	14	3.4	12	2.9	50	6.8	6.1	10.5	279.1	83.1	49.7	16	124	6.22	5.61	3.7	3	3	5
2016	31	BAL	QB	5	16	16	8-8-0	436	672	64.9	4317	20	3.0	15	2.2	95	6.4	6.0	9.9	269.8	83.5	52.7	33	243	5.78	5.39	4.7	2	2	9
2017	32	BAL	QB	5	16	16	9-7-0	352	549	64.1	3141	18	3.3	13	2.4	66	5.7	5.3	8.9	196.3	80.4	46.0	27	205	5.10	4.71	4.7			9

What is the outlier there, other than his god-awful YPA?

Quote

Plus add in the fact that perriman was slated to be his top go to wr last year.

Uhhh no he wasn't. It was always Mike Wallace, then Jeremy Maclin with Perriman being the #3 guy. When Maclin went down, Perriman had the chance to be the #2 guy and blew it. Wallace was always the #1.

[paraven]

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Really?

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
Career					154	154	92-62-0	3267	5291	61.7	35780	200	3.8	130	2.5	95	6.8	6.4	11.0	232.3	84.1		317	2281	5.97	5.64	5.7	18	24	106
2008	23	BAL	QB	5	16	16	11-5-0	257	428	60.0	2971	14	3.3	12	2.8	70	6.9	6.3	11.6	185.7	80.3	42.7	32	276	5.86	5.29	7.0	1	1	11
2009	24	BAL	QB	5	16	16	9-7-0	315	499	63.1	3613	21	4.2	12	2.4	72	7.2	7.0	11.5	225.8	88.9	59.8	36	218	6.35	6.12	6.7	1	2	13
2010	25	BAL	QB	5	16	16	12-4-0	306	489	62.6	3622	25	5.1	10	2.0	67	7.4	7.5	11.8	226.4	93.6	60.1	40	294	6.29	6.39	7.6	2	4	12
2011	26	BAL	QB	5	16	16	12-4-0	312	542	57.6	3610	20	3.7	12	2.2	74	6.7	6.4	11.6	225.6	80.9	62.5	31	203	5.95	5.70	5.4	2	3	12
2012	27	BAL	QB	5	16	16	10-6-0	317	531	59.7	3817	22	4.1	10	1.9	61	7.2	7.2	12.0	238.6	87.7	51.1	35	227	6.34	6.33	6.2	3	3	13
2013	28	BAL	QB	5	16	16	8-8-0	362	614	59.0	3912	19	3.1	22	3.6	74	6.4	5.4	10.8	244.5	73.1	47.8	48	324	5.42	4.50	7.3	2	4	8
2014	29	BAL	QB	5	16	16	10-6-0	344	554	62.1	3986	27	4.9	12	2.2	80	7.2	7.2	11.6	249.1	91.0	68.2	19	167	6.66	6.66	3.3	2	2	14
2015	30	BAL	QB	5	10	10	3-7-0	266	413	64.4	2791	14	3.4	12	2.9	50	6.8	6.1	10.5	279.1	83.1	49.7	16	124	6.22	5.61	3.7	3	3	5
2016	31	BAL	QB	5	16	16	8-8-0	436	672	64.9	4317	20	3.0	15	2.2	95	6.4	6.0	9.9	269.8	83.5	52.7	33	243	5.78	5.39	4.7	2	2	9
2017	32	BAL	QB	5	16	16	9-7-0	352	549	64.1	3141	18	3.3	13	2.4	66	5.7	5.3	8.9	196.3	80.4	46.0	27	205	5.10	4.71	4.7			9

What is the outlier there, other than his god-awful YPA?

Uhhh no he wasn't. It was always Mike Wallace, then Jeremy Maclin with Perriman being the #3 guy. When Maclin went down, Perriman had the chance to be the #2 guy and blew it. Wallace was always the #1.

the expectation was for perriman to be the #1 though. Wallace is a one trick pony. Never a true #1, even though he was last year.

[sp6488]

3 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Really?

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
Career					154	154	92-62-0	3267	5291	61.7	35780	200	3.8	130	2.5	95	6.8	6.4	11.0	232.3	84.1		317	2281	5.97	5.64	5.7	18	24	106
2008	23	BAL	QB	5	16	16	11-5-0	257	428	60.0	2971	14	3.3	12	2.8	70	6.9	6.3	11.6	185.7	80.3	42.7	32	276	5.86	5.29	7.0	1	1	11
2009	24	BAL	QB	5	16	16	9-7-0	315	499	63.1	3613	21	4.2	12	2.4	72	7.2	7.0	11.5	225.8	88.9	59.8	36	218	6.35	6.12	6.7	1	2	13
2010	25	BAL	QB	5	16	16	12-4-0	306	489	62.6	3622	25	5.1	10	2.0	67	7.4	7.5	11.8	226.4	93.6	60.1	40	294	6.29	6.39	7.6	2	4	12
2011	26	BAL	QB	5	16	16	12-4-0	312	542	57.6	3610	20	3.7	12	2.2	74	6.7	6.4	11.6	225.6	80.9	62.5	31	203	5.95	5.70	5.4	2	3	12
2012	27	BAL	QB	5	16	16	10-6-0	317	531	59.7	3817	22	4.1	10	1.9	61	7.2	7.2	12.0	238.6	87.7	51.1	35	227	6.34	6.33	6.2	3	3	13
2013	28	BAL	QB	5	16	16	8-8-0	362	614	59.0	3912	19	3.1	22	3.6	74	6.4	5.4	10.8	244.5	73.1	47.8	48	324	5.42	4.50	7.3	2	4	8
2014	29	BAL	QB	5	16	16	10-6-0	344	554	62.1	3986	27	4.9	12	2.2	80	7.2	7.2	11.6	249.1	91.0	68.2	19	167	6.66	6.66	3.3	2	2	14
2015	30	BAL	QB	5	10	10	3-7-0	266	413	64.4	2791	14	3.4	12	2.9	50	6.8	6.1	10.5	279.1	83.1	49.7	16	124	6.22	5.61	3.7	3	3	5
2016	31	BAL	QB	5	16	16	8-8-0	436	672	64.9	4317	20	3.0	15	2.2	95	6.4	6.0	9.9	269.8	83.5	52.7	33	243	5.78	5.39	4.7	2	2	9
2017	32	BAL	QB	5	16	16	9-7-0	352	549	64.1	3141	18	3.3	13	2.4	66	5.7	5.3	8.9	196.3	80.4	46.0	27	205	5.10	4.71	4.7			9

What is the outlier there, other than his god-awful YPA?

Uhhh no he wasn't. It was always Mike Wallace, then Jeremy Maclin with Perriman being the #3 guy. When Maclin went down, Perriman had the chance to be the #2 guy and blew it. Wallace was always the #1.

"But other than that, how was the play Ms. Lincoln?"

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

3 minutes ago, sp6488 said:

"But other than that, how was the play Ms. Lincoln?"

Point still stands.

[DreamKid]

- With ZDS gone after this year to a classic alright Raven's FA overpay, can't wait to see how much $ he gets , it's great that Correa looks to have taken a step forward. Maybe he can become a middle class man's Clay Mathews for us? We were all excited about our pass rush depth before Correa's showing last night, so everyone should be in high high spirits now.

- Matt Judon has an air about him this year. I thought his production last season was misleading, as most of his sacks came from cleanup, stunts, and straight shots. Maybe he can take his game to another level though. I like what I'm seeing off the field and on it from him already.  

- We're going to carry 4 TEs. It seems reports about Maxx struggling in camp were exaggerated. He looks down in weight compared to last year and much smoother as a result. Admittedly, I thought he looked awkward from the camp footage I saw but it appears he's fine. It's beyond great to see two former 2nd round picks in Williams and Correa out of the darkness. A little light is shining on two players thought to be lost.

- Our rookie CBs need to be schooled up. Averett and Williams both got out veteran'd by another rookie in Javon Wims. Wims overcame Averett's tight coverage with subtle contact, and beat Darious Williams for a touchdown with a small push off. Williams on an earlier catch allowed Wims to shield him from the play, he just wasn't physical enough. Williams also gave up a catch by going for a pick he misjudged. These errors are understandable this early, I don't think they deserve the roasting they're getting. Averett actually had a good game, and Williams had some good moments along with these little things he needs to clean up. I hope to see Williams more physical during next week's game. Credit to Wims for his big day, he seems like just one more in the deepest class of WRs I've ever seen.

- Siragusa needs a big camp and preseason going forward. He doesn't look fully recovered from his injury, and Eluemanor seems to have progressed as a player. He was a relatively high pick so he has a ton of real estate left but at best he's looking like a weekly inactive off the 46.

- The first battle in the "Young Peanut War of 18" was won by Kenny. He played better than Onwuasor and it won't go unnoticed. 

- Things aren't looking good for Albert and Davis. 

- Mark Thompson showed something as a blocker, but couldn't get any offense going. Let's see De'Lance Turner get some more opportunities now.

- It's early but things look pretty good.

[DreamKid]