bucsfan333 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Broncofan said: It's possible for a team to have a fantastic overall draft and to make a horrible mistake with a pick. The 2 statements aren't contradictory. What could have been the best draft of the league instead becomes a top 10. It's no shame for teams or fans to acknowledge this. It's how the best orgs improve. If the Bucs drafted an OL like LeRaven Clark or Shon Coleman or Isaac Seumalo (all of whom are set to start this year for their team and all went in the next 10 picks after 74) Rd 3 and CJ Prosise Rd 4 (Dixon would have been another great pick can't forecast injuries, thus allowing them to beef up other spots this year than having to go RB this past year) and drafted Lutz Rd 6-7 instead of 1 of their last 2 guys then that would have been perhaps an all time great draft. Or go vet FA. Drafting Aguayo was a missed opp for value. Esp when K can go late or even go UDFA. Now there's no lock Tampa would have gone that way but the point remains they never got the chance to improve the team. Cutting Aguayo also means they aren't ever getting any more value. So saying the Bucs lost major value here can't be argued. Pointing to the rest of the draft doesn't change the fact drafting Aguayo Rd 2 by trading up with Rd 3-4 picks was a major fail. You can have the rest of the draft still be strong and call this a colossal mistake. This doesn't mean the org or GM are bad, the best orgs still can make huge mistakes. I say that rooting for a team who has a great GM that routinely finds amazing value late in drafts and generally hits on Rd 1 picks (Lynch worries us all though) but whose Day 2 record is a major weakness FWIW. RB wasn't a need at the time. And hindsight is always 20/20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 50 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: Like we took Alualu and everyone lost their mind but it sounded like someone else was going to do it 2-3 picks later or the reverse of Houston having 2 cards on draft day: 1 said Clowney and the other Bortles i bet someone else would have taken Aguayo really early Folks scratched their heads when we traded up to take Marpet in the second round out of a college almost nobody had ever heard of. Then we later found out both New England and Seattle were targeting him a few picks later. It just takes one team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKTexans Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 21 hours ago, ttitansfan4life said: Arguably the worst pick in history lmao Right up there for sure. At least take a risk with more upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 We drafted Bo Jackson number one overall after he flat out told us he wouldn't sign with us. So we've done much, much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc Ball Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 22 hours ago, ttitansfan4life said: Arguably the worst pick in history lmao You guys apparently wanted him in the third, so you're welcome. He's not even our worst ever second rounder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Bucs must really think they have a shot at winning the title if they're not giving him at least one more year to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc Ball Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 18 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Bucs must really think they have a shot at winning the title if they're not giving him at least one more year to develop. I think there's two ways the coaching staff are looking at it: 1) We're a team who should be challenging for the playoffs this season and we can't be confident in our kicking game with what Aguayo has done so far. 2) Keeping him sends the wrong message to the rest of the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttitansfan4life Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 31 minutes ago, Buc Ball said: You guys apparently wanted him in the third, so you're welcome. He's not even our worst ever second rounder... Even if that were true, it wouldn't of been a trade up. Also I highly doubt it is true. Jon Robinson wanted Kevin Byard in the 3rd and the Titans already had a solid kicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 52 minutes ago, Buc Ball said: I think there's two ways the coaching staff are looking at it: 1) We're a team who should be challenging for the playoffs this season and we can't be confident in our kicking game with what Aguayo has done so far. 2) Keeping him sends the wrong message to the rest of the roster. Yeah. I mean. We gave him every opportunity we could. We stuck it out all last season. We brought in competition this year and let him earn his spot. He just couldn't do it. We're alright enough in terms of overall talent on the roster that trading up for him didn't set us back or anything. The only hurt is his guaranteed money. And even that's not a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingone Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 hour ago, bucsfan333 said: We drafted Bo Jackson number one overall after he flat out told us he wouldn't sign with us. So we've done much, much worse. Absolutely. Bo was upset because he felt the organization was responsible for him losing his eligibility to play baseball at Auburn. What Baltimore got for John Elway is easily the worst trade of all time for me. Even taking away how great a player Elway became, the proposed other trades Baltimore got were much better then Denver s proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 5 hours ago, bucsfan333 said: We've been building this team through the draft the last three years. And with excellent results. There was a kicker in the draft; the best to ever come out of college. It made too much sense to draft him. Trading up for him was questionable. But drafting him was 110% the right call. But he wasn't the best to ever come out of college. He was overrated based on a skewed stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, jrry32 said: But he wasn't the best to ever come out of college. He was overrated based on a skewed stat. He had the third best FG percentage ever and never missed an extra point. It's hard to really argue against what he did in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Now Chiefs fans want to sign him because our starter is hurt and the backup we signed hasn't been great. If anybody would give him a chance it's Reid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 50 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said: He had the third best FG percentage ever and never missed an extra point. It's hard to really argue against what he did in college. Right, but NFL doesn't work based on college performance alone - the best TE's in college rarely work out as well, because they are often finished products, the higher-talent guys are the ones that the NFL looks for. K's operate with the same principle, their range matters a ton. Janikowski's allure was that he was a guy who was seen as a K who could routinely make the 50+ yarders, a game-changer in terms of range. Aguayo never had that profile and still doesn't. He was automatic from inside 40, but far from automatic from 40+. His leg strength was questioned even at Draft time. You said hindsight is 20-20, and that's always a fair comment. But the reality was that a K in Rd 2 is such a low-ceiling proposition, and similar likely outcomes can be achieved by a Rd 6-7, UDFA or FA K, that it wasn't just hindsight that was at play. The pick was roundly panned at the time - and by the Bucs cutting him, they can't get any more return, and Lutz UDFA outcome shows why it was roundly panned before we knew the result now. The track record of finding value late with K's is indisputable. Again, saying this was a terrible pick doesn't mean the Bucs are a terrible franchise or the GM is terrible. Mistakes happen. This was one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 40 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said: He had the third best FG percentage ever and never missed an extra point. It's hard to really argue against what he did in college. Context for that stat is key. I watched every kick he ever attempted in college, and I wouldn't have drafted him. It's easy to make low pressure kicks (his freshman year), but when the stakes were raised and his team wasn't dominating everyone (his sophomore and junior seasons), he wilted. He was not reliable at all beyond 40 yards. By the end of his junior season, he was maybe my 4th choice among FSU kickers over the last 15 years to make a kick that mattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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