buno67 Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 8 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: So if '13 could have easily been a fluke he likely isn't a great receiver, no? If Gordon plays all year he will likely be top 10 all time in receiving yards for the Browns. He only needs about 600 yards to pass Braylon who played 22 more games. I really think you may have married his sister and we just never put 2 and 2 together. He could be just a good WR who had one amazing season, like we have seen in years past. It’s just hard for me to call him a great receiver when he has only played 2 seasons. Dude has every thing it takes to be a great WR but we just never see him on the field to truly see it or not. Gordon could be a great WR or could be a great what could of been story. Yeah if Gordon has a good to great season, he will crack the top10. Just needs 1200yards or so to pass Morin. You also look at the Browns top10 receiving yards list and it’s kinda pathetic. Heck Landry would be 9th with his career yards. Outside of Newsome Webster and Warfield, their history of wideouts sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyDean Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 6 hours ago, buno67 said: Difference is he doesn’t have to respond or talk to the HBO people like they have to do with NFL/team reporters. Also in Hardknocks they rarely have sit down interviews and there giving guys legit type interview. They want to catch the natural stuff or let guys open up. It’s more so following guys around, a couple guys, mainly a top tier player, the stud rookie, the no name rookie or 1yr player trying to make it, and then little segments like a potential RV segment. When they were with a Cincy, Harrison completely ignored the cameras and avoided them. He never got in trouble. Again HBO isn’t trying to make some compelling story to get viewers. They have their viewers and they have no competition to fight with. If this was back in May or June, it be great that he is working out. But its training camp and what he is doing isnt really benefiting him because he isn’t learning the offense, he isn’t getting into football shape, he isn’t building chemistry with QBs, he isn’t getting to know Haley, and etc. If he has been an established WR for the past couple years, avoiding camp like Farve or Bell would be fine but Gordon needs reps And frankly he doesn’t deserve to do anything like that. He doesn’t deserve that kind of special treatment. How do you know that he isn’t learning the offense? He very well could have his nose in the playbook for 10 hours a day. Not in football shape? The guy is in the best shape of his life and is still working on his craft on the field. The one and only thing that has merit that you mentioned is about chemistry with the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooks1957 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 11 hours ago, DizzyDean said: Honestly, the more I read, and the more I think about it, I think this hard knocks thing has merit. If he were there, you know how reporters are. They would not be asking him about the Browns, they would not be asking him about the team, they would not be asking him about the upcoming season. It would be constant.... tell us about your time suspended, tell us about your demons. Why should we believe that you can finally stay clean? I just read and saw a short video, he is still working on football and his craft while in FL, away from the hard knocks cameras. I think with the FSU QB and DBs. Still looked good. If the light has really clicked on for Coleman and Higgins, and the rookie can play up to his talent, look at this WR core! Gordon, Landry, Coleman, Higgins, Callaway, and then Janis as a beast on ST and can come in every now and then for special packages. That is just freaky! One that I do worry about though is Njoku. I don't really see the light flicking on for him from what I have read yet. Bingo, Dizz. This is just one more illustration of why I have despised WITH A PASSION the idea of Hard Knocks in Browns camp. No one will ever be able to change my mind - those people are there for one reason and one reason only - to second guess and ridicule publicly The Cleveland Browns. I hope they choke on their effing ratings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 1 hour ago, DizzyDean said: How do you know that he isn’t learning the offense? He very well could have his nose in the playbook for 10 hours a day. Not in football shape? The guy is in the best shape of his life and is still working on his craft on the field. The one and only thing that has merit that you mentioned is about chemistry with the team. We both know gordon isn’t spending that much time in the playbook. Also there is more then just reading plays on paper. Actually walking through plays and running them is the best way. Also you learn what little nuances need to happen like cutting a split on this one, delaying a tad bit, or whatever little thing might help a play. Hence why walk throughs are so important Again football shape is a lot different than being just physical fit. Also I could care less on him working on his craft on his own. Dude still runs sloppy routes and runs lazy routes when he isn’t the #1 option. His route running has slightly improved since he came into the league but it’s still pretty sloppy, especially for a guy considered to be one of the greats in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 44 minutes ago, brooks1957 said: Bingo, Dizz. This is just one more illustration of why I have despised WITH A PASSION the idea of Hard Knocks in Browns camp. No one will ever be able to change my mind - those people are there for one reason and one reason only - to second guess and ridicule publicly The Cleveland Browns. I hope they choke on their effing ratings. Again the NFL isn’t going to let a program like Hardknocks make one of their franchises look bad. It’s bad for business. It’s bad business for the NFL and HBO. Hardknocks has never painted a player in a bad light, at least none that I can think of from previous seasons. Also if anyone is going to ridicule he browns, it’s going to just be the same things that have been discussed about the past 15+years. They literally can’t say anything that hasn’t been said once before or been reports plenty of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 7 hours ago, buno67 said: Again the NFL isn’t going to let a program like Hardknocks make one of their franchises look bad. It’s bad for business. It’s bad business for the NFL and HBO. Hardknocks has never painted a player in a bad light, at least none that I can think of from previous seasons. Also if anyone is going to ridicule he browns, it’s going to just be the same things that have been discussed about the past 15+years. They literally can’t say anything that hasn’t been said once before or been reports plenty of times. I disagree with you a million percent. Nfl.com runs plenty of hit pieces on the lower tier teams like the Browns all the time. These speculation pieces are what drive ESPN and as much as anything are a part of the popularity: hating teams like the Patriots, cheering for anything military-related, cheering for the good comeback story, and rolling our eyes collectively at the terrible teams that are the laughingstocks. The NFL couldn't care less if the Browns are made to look absolutely pathetic if that creates some Cowherd/Bayless'esque drama to run with. Bad news is good news nowadays. It's all ratings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 7 hours ago, NudeTayne said: I disagree with you a million percent. Nfl.com runs plenty of hit pieces on the lower tier teams like the Browns all the time. These speculation pieces are what drive ESPN and as much as anything are a part of the popularity: hating teams like the Patriots, cheering for anything military-related, cheering for the good comeback story, and rolling our eyes collectively at the terrible teams that are the laughingstocks. The NFL couldn't care less if the Browns are made to look absolutely pathetic if that creates some Cowherd/Bayless'esque drama to run with. Bad news is good news nowadays. It's all ratings. Nfl.com is a lot different tho. They need to compete with yahoo, ESPN, FOxsports for clicks. So they will do stuff for the hits. Hardknocks, there is zero competition. There is nothing out there that gives fans access to a team like this preseason show. Also if they want to make a story on anyone it’s going to be Baker Mayfield. If they truly want ratings and will do anything for ratings. They will do that around Baker. The Bucs are not an interesting team but they had Winston, they premiered with the 2nd highest ratings over the past 5 years or so. Your casual fan is going to watch and care about Baker than Josh Gordon Heck when he rams premiered, it had the lowest numbers in the previous 5years or so. Next couple episodes they didn’t try to milk a story line to improve ratings. Just went along how they normally do it. Heck here is a quote from Mike Brown discussing what he liked about Hardknocks for Cincy “Brown later said he thought the ability of "Hard Knocks" to tell personal stories about his players humanized the team and helped change people's view of the Bengals.” Hardknocks has never been about being negative. They are more so looking for the good, funny, light hearted type stuff. Hence why some of the more memorable moments the past couple years were about discussing in dinosaurs really existed. The spelling bee during the Texans, the fast food with ththe Jets. Harrison being funny to avoid the cameras, I cant see they are going to change up for the browns and try and get these hit pieces going for the browns and paint everyone in a not so color light. If this was a different show I would be concerned about it but with it being Hardknocks, they aren’t going to pull a 180 specially when they have some great players to follow like Baker and garrett and being around Dorsey and Haslam. I’m excited to see what Dorsey is like with the Cameras on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 48 minutes ago, buno67 said: Nfl.com is a lot different tho. They need to compete with yahoo, ESPN, FOxsports for clicks. So they will do stuff for the hits. Hardknocks, there is zero competition. There is nothing out there that gives fans access to a team like this preseason show. Also if they want to make a story on anyone it’s going to be Baker Mayfield. If they truly want ratings and will do anything for ratings. They will do that around Baker. The Bucs are not an interesting team but they had Winston, they premiered with the 2nd highest ratings over the past 5 years or so. Your casual fan is going to watch and care about Baker than Josh Gordon Heck when he rams premiered, it had the lowest numbers in the previous 5years or so. Next couple episodes they didn’t try to milk a story line to improve ratings. Just went along how they normally do it. Heck here is a quote from Mike Brown discussing what he liked about Hardknocks for Cincy “Brown later said he thought the ability of "Hard Knocks" to tell personal stories about his players humanized the team and helped change people's view of the Bengals.” Hardknocks has never been about being negative. They are more so looking for the good, funny, light hearted type stuff. Hence why some of the more memorable moments the past couple years were about discussing in dinosaurs really existed. The spelling bee during the Texans, the fast food with ththe Jets. Harrison being funny to avoid the cameras, I cant see they are going to change up for the browns and try and get these hit pieces going for the browns and paint everyone in a not so color light. If this was a different show I would be concerned about it but with it being Hardknocks, they aren’t going to pull a 180 specially when they have some great players to follow like Baker and garrett and being around Dorsey and Haslam. I’m excited to see what Dorsey is like with the Cameras on him Everything you're saying makes sense and yet I still don't believe it. Maybe it's the cynic in me--Mind has worn off in me perhaps--but I'll believe it when I see it. The landscapers of everything seems to be going negative as far as coverage. If love for "Hard Knocks" to be the sacred cow and hold fast against the temptation for juicy stories, but I just can't accept it at this moment. I really hope you're right. I really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 36 minutes ago, NudeTayne said: Everything you're saying makes sense and yet I still don't believe it. Maybe it's the cynic in me--Mind has worn off in me perhaps--but I'll believe it when I see it. The landscapers of everything seems to be going negative as far as coverage. If love for "Hard Knocks" to be the sacred cow and hold fast against the temptation for juicy stories, but I just can't accept it at this moment. I really hope you're right. I really do. Also I believe that the team has the final say on what gets aired. Hence why there are not a lot of truly negative things that come out. I think they do that so the coaches can review what is on film and opponents can’t pick up on things. I believe the most that has ever been picked up by an opposing team was the Cadence of the QB JJ Watt said he picked it up when Miami was on and used it to his advantage when they played. to me the truly negative thing is players get to hear some of the behind door conversations coaches might have about them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-hard-knocks/0ap2000000209182/Hard-Knocks-Chad-Johnson-gets-released Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-hard-knocks/0ap2000000209182/Hard-Knocks-Chad-Johnson-gets-released One of if not the most memorable moment from hard knocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-hard-knocks/0ap2000000209182/Hard-Knocks-Chad-Johnson-gets-released Nailed it. This is what I was thinking of when I responded earlier. I think there's love to witness Gordon's downfall, though they'd make sure to play it innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 2 hours ago, NudeTayne said: Nailed it. This is what I was thinking of when I responded earlier. I think there's love to witness Gordon's downfall, though they'd make sure to play it innocent. But you were saying that the Cameras and Hardknocks would try and make story lines and try and tempt Gordon into giving them something or the editors doing something to put a negative spin on something. The Chad Johnson cut scene is such an emotional video because he was such a great WR and we saw the ending of his career and they caught it on film of his career ending. It was an emotional moment. One of the most emotional moments on Hardknocks. The Vontea Davis was a rare moment too. The Jeff Fisher scene on all or nothing when he breaks it to his staff that he has been fired was rough to watch as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Just now, buno67 said: But you were saying that the Cameras and Hardknocks would try and make story lines and try and tempt Gordon into giving them something or the editors doing something to put a negative spin on something. The Chad Johnson cut scene is such an emotional video because he was such a great WR and we saw the ending of his career and they caught it on film of his career ending. It was an emotional moment. One of the most emotional moments on Hardknocks. The Vontea Davis was a rare moment too. The Jeff Fisher scene on all or nothing when he breaks it to his staff that he has been fired was rough to watch as well You make a good point. I'll clarify in saying that I don't think they will be parasitic about it to the point that they will pepper him with questions that make him uncomfortable or try to trap him. I just think that they are going to follow him around excessively and try to catch every opportunity for him to slip. And if he slips, I think we'll definitely get to see that on tape happening, like if he has an emotional/mental health outburst or something. Some of what I'm been thinking Could Happen would be new for them. I just don't like the way media coverage is going, and I fear that the natural progression will be that shows even as highly touted as Hard Knocks might start dipping pretty low to get the juicy story. It's all speculation on my part, to be fair to your assessments. I will also say that situations where a player keeps messing up because of substance abuse issues get me extra sympathetic; as much as I want our team to do what's best for the franchise, my heart really goes out to Josh and I don't think there's much he could do that would make me feel bitter toward him, even if it's him screwing up multiple more times to the point that he's out of the league and the Browns are left with nothing to show for all their leniency and support. That may or may not be fair/enabling to be so lenient, but that's how I feel. Apologies for all the run-ons today--a but underslept and don't really feel like doing a ton of editing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 What happens if he doesn't show by 7th august? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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