Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
AlNFL19

Match The 2019 Quarterback Class To NFL Teams

Recommended Posts

On 8/18/2018 at 2:40 PM, CWood21 said:

This is going to be an awful class.  You've really got 3 QBs right now who you could argue that are/will have 1st round grades.  Herbert and Lock have the arm, but come out of questionable offensive systems.  Herbert has ball security concerns and Lock's footwork is atrocious.  Stidham comes out of an offensive system that inflates his numbers, and his physical tools aren't as good.

I REALLY disagree with the bold. He's got a better arm than Lock (part of that could be because of Lock's footwork) and he's got decent size (6'3" 215). I think the biggest question for Stidham is the system and whether or not he can translate. Herbert probably has the best combination of size and physical tools though.

Also, Will Grier? For someone that loved Baker, I'm surprised you don't have Grier mentioned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, beekay414 said:

I REALLY disagree with the bold. He's got a better arm than Lock (part of that could be because of Lock's footwork) and he's got decent size (6'3" 215). I think the biggest question for Stidham is the system and whether or not he can translate. Herbert probably has the best combination of size and physical tools though.

Also, Will Grier? For someone that loved Baker, I'm surprised you don't have Grier mentioned.

Granted I haven't watched a TON of any of the QB prospects, Lock's arm definitely looked stronger.  Could have been the TV angle, but Lock seemed to have more velocity on his throws.  And Malzahn's offense tends to inflate numbers.  Never really saw much out of Stidham.  Still think he's a solid QB prospect, but he's a mid-round pick at best right now.  Haven't really looked at Will Grier yet, but he's no Baker Mayfield.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Granted I haven't watched a TON of any of the QB prospects, Lock's arm definitely looked stronger.  Could have been the TV angle, but Lock seemed to have more velocity on his throws.

He definitely has more opportunities in his system to show it than Stidham does. He throws a really good deep ball and probably throws it farther than Stidham but it tends to float a bit (not Hornibrook bad type of float, mind you). Stidham, when he's been given the opportunities to make those throws, they just look better IMO. Underneath stuff, I think Stidham has the better ball and arm. The velocity and ball just looks more clean coming out of Stidham's hand. This throw vs Alabama shows a little of what I mean. Or this throw. His arm isn't subpar. We just don't get the chance to see it BECAUSE of that system. I dunno. I could just be talking out of my rear end here.

 

49 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

And Malzahn's offense tends to inflate numbers

Maybe efficiency numbers but it's doing Stidham no favors in regards to showing pro scouts what he can do. Missouri's system tends to inflate numbers as well but nobody really knocks Lock for that.

49 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Never really saw much out of Stidham.  Still think he's a solid QB prospect, but he's a mid-round pick at best right now

You give him a chance to learn the playbook and a pro system and he'll give you more than I think investing a 1st round pick in Lock would. Even then, I think Stidham ends up a 1st round pick when it's all said and done due to the tools and his pedigree.

49 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

 Haven't really looked at Will Grier yet, but he's no Baker Mayfield.

That's your bias talking tbh. Watch Grier and tell me he doesn't remind you of Baker when he plays. I know it's a highlight video but tell me he doesn't draw some similarities to Baker. 

Edited by beekay414

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, beekay414 said:

He definitely has more opportunities in his system to show it than Stidham does. He throws a really good deep ball and probably throws it farther than Stidham but it tends to float a bit (not Hornibrook bad type of float, mind you). Stidham, when he's been given the opportunities to make those throws, they just look better IMO. Underneath stuff, I think Stidham has the better ball and arm. The velocity and ball just looks more clean coming out of Stidham's hand. This throw vs Alabama shows a little of what I mean. Or this throw. His arm isn't subpar. We just don't get the chance to see it BECAUSE of that system. I dunno. I could just be talking out of my rear end here.

I mean, let's not pretend like Stidham didn't get his chances to show off his arm.  It's not like he plays in an offense where he checks it down all the time.  I'm not saying Stidham's arm is weak, I think it's average and Lock's is a tick above that.  We're definitely getting different angles, so that could easily be the difference between the two.  I guess we will see more this year.  I mean, if you would have told me that Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield would be top 10 picks, I'd tell you that you were crazy.

14 hours ago, beekay414 said:

Maybe efficiency numbers but it's doing Stidham no favors in regards to showing pro scouts what he can do. Missouri's system tends to inflate numbers as well but nobody really knocks Lock for that.

I wasn't trying to say that wasn't the case.  I was merely saying that we've seen Malzahn makes QBs look better than they were.  Mizzou does have an offense that inflates numbers.  I just see a lot of simple reads and predesigned throws with Stidham.

14 hours ago, beekay414 said:

You give him a chance to learn the playbook and a pro system and he'll give you more than I think investing a 1st round pick in Lock would. Even then, I think Stidham ends up a 1st round pick when it's all said and done due to the tools and his pedigree.

Right now?  No.  A year from now?  Possibly.  I mean, how many people had Baker Mayfield as a first round pick before last year?  I mean, that's the same thing with Stidham for me.  He's a guy putting up big numbers in a favorable offensive system.  I want to see that next jump.

14 hours ago, beekay414 said:

That's your bias talking tbh. Watch Grier and tell me he doesn't remind you of Baker when he plays. I know it's a highlight video but tell me he doesn't draw some similarities to Baker.

Honestly, I think you're underestimating Baker.  Baker bunked about a dozen different trends last year to become the #1 pick.  LIS, I haven't watched much of him but I think how much you're downplaying what Baker did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Honestly, I think you're underestimating Baker.  Baker bunked about a dozen different trends last year to become the #1 pick.  LIS, I haven't watched much of him but I think how much you're downplaying what Baker did.

Im not talking about Grier in regards to the top pick. Im simply saying Grier reminds me of him. Not sure how you can watch him and not see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, beekay414 said:

Im not talking about Grier in regards to the top pick. Im simply saying Grier reminds me of him. Not sure how you can watch him and not see it.

I guess.  I mean, I think you're underselling how much Baker improved from his second to third year at Oklahoma.  He was a mid-round prospect coming out of a fluky offensive system at Oklahoma after his junior year, and he was a Heisman-winning QB and a first round lock after his senior year.  He mastered that offense.  Plus, there were less questions about Oklahoma's offense than there is with West Virginia.  It'll be interesting to see if Grier can take that next step.  I wouldn't put him clearly ahead of Lock/Stidham/Herbert, but don't mind if you do.  I just want to see more.  We've got enough college QBs play in pass-happy spread offenses who flop hard in the NFL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really liking what I am seeing in Will Grier. If Tampa dumps Winston. He would be perfect in their offense. 

Edited by Jimmy Austin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Jimmy Austin said:

Really liking what I am seeing in Will Grier. If Tampa dumps Winston. He would be perfect in their offense. 

Yep. IMO he's the clear cut top QB in this class.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, beekay414 said:

Yep. IMO he's the clear cut top QB in this class.

Yes I agree in terms of week one, Grier by far looks like the best QB available in the up coming draft, but still is probably not worth a pick in the top 20-25.  Grier looked great his first game, was much more fundamentally sound in the pocket with his footwork and did not rely on plays breaking down and him running around to make throws and big plays.  Did make more than a few solid productive passes in the pocket and on time.  Start of the game did miss some easy ones but got better as it went on.

Then again he is playing a crap Tennessee defense that is breaking in a new system and most of the guys out there probably were not comfortable or that familiar with their roles and new expectations.  The games to watch for Grier is well TCU and maybe Oklahoma.  But honestly there is no really great defense he plays or great secondary more importantly, big surprise is in the Big 12.  So if he does not rip it up against every team they play, that would be a disappointment.  Played lights out week 1 that is for sure and no reason to think he will not do the exact same as the year goes on, will be interesting to watch.  Then again Mason Rudolph who almost threw for 5000 yards in the same conference as a senior last year, is a much bigger player and has a better touch arguably was a freaking 3rd round pick.  So that does not say much for ripping it up during a season especially in that conference.  I would take 6 QBs from the 2018 draft over Grier, but lucky for Grier it is obviously a weak QB draft in general. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, freak_of_nature said:

I'd like Miami to snag Francois Day 2. I think he'd be a good WCO fit.

Do you think he leaves early?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know Herbert is getting lots of love, but to me, he's Joey Harrington waiting to happen. He's yet to play a full season and makes a scary first round investment as a first rounder. For my money, Trace McSorley would be ideal to change the culture in Tampa Bay. Winston just does not seem like a guy I want to hand 20 mil to next year. If not for the Bridgewater trade, Trace would have been ideal caddying for Brees in NoLa. One kid to keep an eye on - Easton Stick-North Dakota State. He's a pretty mobile QB, smart, stepped in when Wentz got hurt a few years back, more a Rich Gannon type with a dash of Jimmy G, perhaps why NE had scouts there last week & also plan several visits.

The Chargers and Pats will eventually need to address the aging QB scene, but I doubt either will invest a first rounder. Will Grier might be an option in round 2, more so for LA, as NE has two guys they are examining early, Stick & Mississippi State bad boy, Nick Fitzgerald. Don't forget a Heisman darkhorse at U of A - Khalil Tate if he bolts. Coughlin could see him as a bigger version of Russell Wilson for Jax, as I am not drinking the bug juice that Bortles is his man.

from, Dave-Te Thomas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Except of my report on Trace McSorley;

Set Up                    McSorley is very efficient with his set-up and delivery of the ball. He has experience taking snaps from under center and shotgun. While he is not under center often, he does drop back quickly and shows good rhythm and timing, planting his back foot and driving the quick slant. Has a quick, over the top release and does an excellent job of finding clear passing lanes from which to throw. Even though his rushing numbers give you this indication, McSorley is not the type who will bolt at the first sign of pressure. He has nimble feet, showing functional foot speed to set up and retreat from the line of scrimmage to get to his throwing point. He has the body control to slide in the pocket and when he keeps his feet under him, displays the ability to throw on the move (will get flat-footed at times and this affects his velocity and accuracy). He gets good depth in his pass drop (3-5 step) and shows good upper and lower body mechanics. He is well-versed in a pro-style attack and carries the ball well. He has worked on developing a more compact motion, as he did wind up quite a bit during his sophomore season (resulted in high amounts of pass deflections, as defenders had good success setting up when he double-clutched).

Reading Defenses                              McSorley makes lots of line calls operating out of the shotgun, but you would figure with his rushing ability that he would run with the ball more when pressured rather than try to force the ball into a crowd. In the NFL, he has one trait coaches love - the ability to make good progression reads. He will be patient waiting for things to develop, but he also has confidence in his ability to run with the ball when his primary and secondary targets are unavailable. He sees the field better operating out of the shotgun and while some scouts think he might have problems doing so under center, due to a lack of height, one only has to look at his completion numbers and ability to convert third-down plays (see 2017 Iowa, Northwestern, Michigan State, Washington games). Still, he is good at anticipating opportunities, leading to 282 touchdown passes and eleven scoring runs in 2017. He is  very good at anticipating defensive schemes and will generally show good judgment, stepping up and out of pressure to buy time so his target can get open and despite just an average frame, he will stand tall and absorb punishment rather than force the ball into a crowd. With his nimble feet, he is considered a player who can be creative running with the ball. I like his toughness, as he is willing to take a sack rather than throw the ball up for grabs. He has developed enough that he no longer spends a lot of time hanging on to his primary targets, as he developed great confidence in his tight ends to utilize them as safety valves during the course of the 2017 season. He might miss a read every now and then, but has a short memory and will not let one play affect the way he performs the rest of the game. He is very quick and decisive picking up coverages and has good ability to read on the pre-snap. Despite a young and questionable protection from his offensive line, he will not force things just to make things happen. He takes what the defense gives him and is good at improvising. You can see on film that he has good timing and touch to move the chains rather than go for the “home run” ball, a perfect fit for a West Coast-type of offense.

Release                 McSorley demonstrates the compact delivery and throwing motion, along with the wrist flick, to get the ball out cleanly and quickly. He has a compact motion, holding the ball chest-high to execute a fluid ¾ release. He gets the ball through the throwing arc well and has a lively arm, along with the ability and sense to know when to vary his speed. He plants well to throw and the pass comes out with a tight spiral, putting a nice spin behind his long tosses. He displays very good quickness in his delivery, rarely showing even a hint of a wind-up. He is effective at planting his feet before throwing, but will throw off his back foot at times, taking some velocity off his passes. He is quick to load and while he does not appear to be a long-ball thrower, he is very efficient at moving the chains. The ball does come of his hand with good zip though, when he has time to release. On the move, he will throw with more of a ¾ release, which lets him get the ball out quicker.

Arm Strength                        Maybe this scout needs a new pair of glasses, as I do not see an issue with his long ball execution, as the sphere rarely is feathered or hangs too long for the defender to get under. While I would not call his arm strength his most impressive trait, especially considering his lack of ideal size, I feel that McSorley can easily make every NFL throw, showing the ability to drive the football to the sideline on a line from the opposite hash. While that play is not called often, when it is, you can see he can send the ball 40-50 yards downfield with a flick of his wrist. He shows a tight spiral and the precision to get the ball through tight spaces when he sets his feet and does not stand flat-footed. He generates good velocity on his mid-range throws and has a really nice feel on those intermediate routes. When he does fail to put better zip behind his deep outs, the ball can hang when going long, but noticing him in practice, he can easily throw 50 yards downfield without putting too much “umph” behind his tosses. He shows very good ball rotation and solid strength behind his comeback routes. Most NFL teams vision him as a West Coast-type of passer, as he excels when working on moving the chains with short patterns, and he has good mechanics, as his spiral is tight on most deep throws and he can generate good air behind his fades.

Accuracy                               McSorley has recorded two of the university's top passing efficiency ratings the last two years and shows very good accuracy on short routes, whether placing the ball along the sidelines or generating enough zip to thread the needle working in tight areas over the middle (has rectified his wind-up on those throws that used to affect his velocity). He showcases his ability to consistently throw receivers open vs. single coverage as a junior, demonstrating impressive improvement in this area from his time under center in 2016. (see 2017 Akron, Georgia State, Northwestern, Rutgers games). He delivers a tight spiral that is easily tracked and caught. He typically hits his receivers in stride whether on zipped crossing routes, touch passes dropped over the top of defenders or line drives leading receivers out of bounds on the deep out. He has good chemistry with receivers, as they do not need to adjust on their routes going for the ball in traffic. He has good touch underneath and last season, he showed excellent ability to put the ball where it is easier for his receiver to catch it. He is more accurate with his throws working vs. safeties and linebackers, doing a very good job of just dropping his tosses into the zone than challenging cornerbacks in the deep secondary. You can see on his short-to-intermediate throws that McSorley is very capable of hitting his receivers in stride with minimal adjustment on the wide-out’s part. He excels at snapping his head around quickly and this allows him to put good touch behind throws into the mid-range area. When he sets his feet properly, he has the ability to feather the ball into the receiver’s hands and get the pass over the outside shoulder of his target. He is very capable of reading the defender and coverage, knowing when to put zip on his throws or vary his speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A little bit on Easton Stick;

Set Up                    Stick shows good footwork and body control once he receives the snap. He has good foot quickness and is very agility moving around the backfield. He is the type that will not look to run at the first sign of pressure, but he has the strength to absorb pocket punishment.  He has a quick release and has worked hard to show more patience and locating his secondary targets better before bolting on his own. Even though he operates mostly in the spread offense, he has taken a good portion of snaps in the classic formation and shows that he has the ability to drive back from center quickly as a pocket passer. With his quickness, playing in either formation should not be a problems once he gets a few more reps and becomes comfortable doing so under center. He can reach his throwing point with a normal stride and has the body control and agility needed to drive back from center quickly. When he steps into his throws, he is ready to unleash in an instant, doing a nice job sliding in and out of the pocket.

Reading Defenses                              Stick is a good decision maker, when given time to scan the field. Yes, he does like to tuck the ball and run with it more than he should, but he does a decent job with his check-downs and is quick to read safeties and go over the top of coverage to complete passes with regularity (101-of-164 completions were for first downs in 2017 - see Missouri State, Indiana State, Sam Houston State games). He did have a stretch where he threw into  double coverage last year (Western Illinois, Northern Iowa, South Dakota State games), but when utilizing multiple-receiver sets (especially tight ends), he does a nice job of scanning and looking off to locate his secondary targets. He is the type that will run with the ball rather than throw it away when his targets are covered, but there are those times when you will see him force the pass into traffic rather than take the sack. He needs to be more alert to backside pressure and must do a better job of distributing the ball and keeping it away from the defender to avoid costly sacks moving around the backfield. He is just the type that will work within the coaching system and take whatever the defense gives him. He seems to be more effective in the team’s “dink-&-dunk” system, but has the ability when throwing long (34 completions were for twenty yards or longer), as his arm strength is an asset. He looks very effective reading off coverage and does a solid job on underneath throws, play action and when executing up the seam.

Release                 Stick has a quick over-the-top delivery with enough trajectories to get the balls over the head of defenders without getting many passes batted down at the line of scrimmage. He shows solid arm whip, but you still want to see more attempts to see if he has the NFL caliber power needed to be consistent on his long tosses. His velocity is much better when throwing short, but he has good finesse when going underneath or on play action and is always alert to secondary targets in attempts to stretch the field. He throws a tight spiral, even when having to go deep. He is not the type that needs a big wind-up to deliver the ball and it is rare to see his long throws will wobble some. He has good quickness in his release and while he’s not a long-arm thrower, he is quick to load. Under pressure, he knows how to get the ball off with better quickness, showing fluidness and smoothness in his release with no wasted motion.

Arm Strength                        Stick is good at moving the chains and when he sets his feet properly and steps into his long throws, the ball will feather into the receiver's hands without his target having to break stride (see 2017 Missouri State, Western Illinois, South Dakota, Wofford games). He has shown very good zip on his 12-to-15-yard throws also. He is comfortable throwing on the move, rarely getting off-balanced and is conscious of not throwing off his back foot. He can step into his tosses to get air behind his deep ball, but the system used at the school calls for him to work underneath more than to be in a vertical attack. He can put good zip on his intermediate tosses and his long ball has good touch and trajectory. He appears to have good deep out and comeback strength to put more “umph” when trying to attack the deep zone. His passes show good ball rotation in the short area and his long ball fires out fast enough to keep the receiver from breaking off the route. He is a good outside hash thrower, but you just wish the NDSU system would open it up more to see if he has the valid vertical arm strength NFL teams require. Still, if you break down his deep passing game, during the second half of the 2017 schedule, you can see that Stick does a nice job when throwing across the body and while the long ball is not used often (team was lacking receivers needed to stretch the field), he has more than enough arm strength to air it out, putting the desired zip on the ball to get the ball deep throwing from the opposite hash (see San Diego, Wofford, Sam Houston State games).

Accuracy                               This is his best asset. In the short passing game, Stick puts the ball where the receiver can catch it. He throws a catchable ball with zip or touch and does a nice job of keeping the receiver in the route. He is not the type that forces the receiver to adjust on crossing patterns and he knows how to take something off his passes when dumping off, as he can also drop the ball over the top. He showed better touch in 2017 on flares than he did in the past. He can also air it out well on his deep throws. When going long. Stick gets good velocity and timing behind his throws. He appears to have the valid arm power needed to lead the receivers going deep, as he can put good touch on those throws. When airing the ball out the last two years, Stick showed good improvement with his trajectory (in the past, when going long on the move, he did make his receivers adjust a bit). He has good  touch on screen, along with zip on slants and hitches. He knows he has the arm power to lay it over the top deep down the seam and along the boundaries, but you'd just wish the coaches would let him go vertical more often.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  



×