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Training Camp Thread


AnAngryAmerican

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5 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Too early to talk about the potential of a new head coach for next year - though the idea does excite me - but if that's what transpires I suspect we will go the safe, veteran choice like we did after McDisaster. I think the two potentials right now, and two I would not at all mind, are John Harbaugh and Jason Garrett. Both are well-established, the former has a ring, and both are used to working with "my way or the highway-" type GMs. 

I am going to go Demarcus Ware as the next HC.  If Elway is looking for a leader among men...I think Ware could certainly be that, while letting coaches like Musgrave do the actual coaching.  

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2 hours ago, jolly red giant said:

Don't think this happens - and I don't think it happens because of cap space - to bring in a vet would require eating Paxton's dead money and paying the vet - there is little wiggle-room and we have bigger needs.

I think if Keenum gets injured then we sign a vet (unless Lynch is still on the books and Joseph has already tanked the season).

I suspect if a vet is brought in, it's for the vet min at 630K cap hit.   If you mean we're not bringing in a higher priced guy, yeah, the cap management says no go.

Re: Lynch, the thing is, whether we cut him now or next offseason, the dead money is still due - and it now goes to next year regardless.   Any dead money post-June 1 goes to 2019, so letting Lynch go or not isn't a cap problem - it was a cap issue for when we were looking to get FA's, etc. pre-June 1.   Now, not so much.   We do end up paying an extra 630K minimum for a new body.   

I say the above against bringing in a vet to the be the 3rd guy, but I have zero problem if we cut Lynch now, or at the end of the season.   630K isn't going to make or break us - but Lynch probably couldn't even be our 3rd guy - if he really had to ask why he was being demoted, man, that's a sign he just does not get it, and likely won't ever either.   I mean, literally shown zero progress in 3 offseasons.  Maybe his confidence is so shot here because of the demotion and playing under the microscope and that's why he looks so awful this year, whereas in a new place he'd do better (I doubt it, FWIW, playing under the microscope is part of the NFL nowadays as an early-round rookie) - but either way, it's pretty clear he'll never work out here.     Definitely will go down as Elway's biggest whiff to date.  Oh well.

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I don't want a vet QB until injury. If Case goes down, start Kelly and bring in a vet. If we go vet now, its likely the staff would play him over Kelly based on experience, I don't want that. Case going down and Kelly starting would be the most exciting thing that could happen this year. Albeit I cant/wont hope for it, never want a guy injured, but it would be so fun to see Kelly in a meaningful game.

We really should cut Lynch now though and sign Kayvon. We need to hedge our bets behind Harris/Roby and hope one works out. I think its going to be a few games before we settle on a 3CB. Yidiom is talented but not ready, Brock is a journeyman and has lost a step. Kayvon is willing to play ST and if recovered from injury gives us a middle ground between the rookie and Brock, experience and athleticism. I actually like him more than Breeland who is very boom/bust.

How the hell is Hankins still available? Not a need, but surprising. And wasn't Bowman good on OAK last season? He seems like a great look at ILB and a vet leader too. Too bad we are financially stuck to Marshall.

Eric Reid should be an option if Parks is out for any extended period of time. Don't care about the political stuff, just about getting W's. He is a good player.

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22 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I don't want a vet QB until injury. If Case goes down, start Kelly and bring in a vet. If we go vet now, its likely the staff would play him over Kelly based on experience, I don't want that. Case going down and Kelly starting would be the most exciting thing that could happen this year. Albeit I cant/wont hope for it, never want a guy injured, but it would be so fun to see Kelly in a meaningful game.

We really should cut Lynch now though and sign Kayvon. We need to hedge our bets behind Harris/Roby and hope one works out. I think its going to be a few games before we settle on a 3CB. Yidiom is talented but not ready, Brock is a journeyman and has lost a step. Kayvon is willing to play ST and if recovered from injury gives us a middle ground between the rookie and Brock, experience and athleticism. I actually like him more than Breeland who is very boom/bust.

How the hell is Hankins still available? Not a need, but surprising. And wasn't Bowman good on OAK last season? He seems like a great look at ILB and a vet leader too. Too bad we are financially stuck to Marshall.

Eric Reid should be an option if Parks is out for any extended period of time. Don't care about the political stuff, just about getting W's. He is a good player.

I wonder if Elway is waiting on Week 1+ to bring in Kayvon, because after Week 1, vet salaries are week-to-week, and not fully guaranteed (unlike if we bring him in now, fully guaranteed if he's on the 53 man roster week 1).   Coming off Achilles injury and a non-elite skill set, it might be the thinking.   Unlike other injuries, Achilles recovery is no lock to return to the same level of play.  If we've waited this long, waiting 3 more weeks and then bringing in Webster (who knows our system well, so doesn't need the reps nearly as much, and coming off the Achilles, will likely still be ramping up his reps), makes a ton of financial sense, matched to where he's likely at recovery-wise in Achilles rehab timing.

Re: Hankins, it's all about the $ IMO - unless his camp has done an amazing job of hiding an injury and every team who's brought him in has stayed silent (and we all know that's unlikely), seems way more likely.   Like you said, not a need for us - we've got interior run stuffers galore, who don't add nearly as much to pass rush.   I'd imagine he'll sign soon once the $ demands go down.  FWIW, Breeland apparently wants well more than the vet min salary, which is why he hasn't signed either.  Breeland's a better fit in a zone scheme, which is the other reason I don't think we've even sniffed around.  DRC as slot (if we're keeping Harris outside) would have been the ideal fit, but that ship sailed (worse yet, in OAK, oh well).

Re: Bowman, he was playing at JAG level - which might still be an upgrade lol.  But likely with Jewell in the fold, and the hope that Cravens/Parks can fill the hybrid LB/S role, that's likely where Elway's going for LB.  Parks only suffering a laceration was a huge break - we really can't afford to lose him if Cravens can't get on the field.  Otherwise, we're back to the same situation in 2017 where D's know we can't cover either the TE or RB (whoever Simmons isn't covering).   

Re: Reid, I'll stop after saying that he's clearly worth signing for pretty much 20+ NFL teams, and with our depth decimated, would be worth considering on play level alone.  But we all know it's likely more than his on-field abilities why Elway won't go there, and leave it at that.

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Just for kicks, I spent the last 30 min watching Paxton Lynch highlights from college. It's crazy; literally 90% of his highlight throws came on 1-read plays designed specifically to go to one target. I literally saw *maybe* 3-4 plays total where he had to progress through his other options and read the defense. I know I say this a lot, but seriously. How the hell do scouts miss this kind of stuff?! You CAN NOT spend a first round pick on a quarterback who has no idea how to read defenses. No matter what kind of athlete they are. And we've done it twice now in the last 8 years. 

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42 minutes ago, 1234567 said:

Just for kicks, I spent the last 30 min watching Paxton Lynch highlights from college. It's crazy; literally 90% of his highlight throws came on 1-read plays designed specifically to go to one target. I literally saw *maybe* 3-4 plays total where he had to progress through his other options and read the defense. I know I say this a lot, but seriously. How the hell do scouts miss this kind of stuff?! You CAN NOT spend a first round pick on a quarterback who has no idea how to read defenses. No matter what kind of athlete they are. And we've done it twice now in the last 8 years. 

I'm amazed he's still on the roster. Surely won't be after cut day.

Lynch has had his chances with us and hasn't taken them. If some other team think he's NFL worthy then let them have at it. I see no prospect of him doing anything in Denver.

You mentioned how we've busted on QB selections in the draft. I worry about how we analyze QB's full stop.

Seriously, apart from Manning who have we had since Elway retired? Granted Elway deserves credit for getting Peyton here but he hasn't hit at all in his other choices at QB (Keenum TBD yet)

Sure we've had QB's that were decent and had good seasons (Griese, Plummer, Cutler). Tebow got us to the playoffs and Brock had a good period and got paid, but we haven't had a QB who you could really call franchise in the last couple of decades apart from Elway and Manning.

Sure franchise QB's don't grow on trees, but you'd like to think we could find someone you could call an NFL Starter/Good QB. Obviously Keenum's the next guy to step up but say he reverts to the well known version of him what do we do next?

Elway hasn't shown he can pick em. 

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2 hours ago, 1234567 said:

Just for kicks, I spent the last 30 min watching Paxton Lynch highlights from college. It's crazy; literally 90% of his highlight throws came on 1-read plays designed specifically to go to one target. I literally saw *maybe* 3-4 plays total where he had to progress through his other options and read the defense. I know I say this a lot, but seriously. How the hell do scouts miss this kind of stuff?! You CAN NOT spend a first round pick on a quarterback who has no idea how to read defenses. No matter what kind of athlete they are. And we've done it twice now in the last 8 years. 

Sorry, but I can't agree Brock was a bust. He played real well for us in 2015. Without him we don't win a SB. He was light years ahead of where Lynch is.

Everything else I agree with.. 

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2 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

We just signed Pacman Jones I guess he plays the slot.

 

2 hours ago, AKRNA said:

Probably a backup at all three spots and a very capable return man.

 

2 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

I think it means they keep pacman and let Brock go.

 

1 hour ago, broncofan48 said:

Probably keep both.  Yiadom and Langley aren’t ready and we need 4 CBs 

FWIW I think it's more likely we just let McKenzie go - he's a gadget guy only at WR, and now we have a sure-handed threat who actually can help us elsewhere.    We're better off keeping 6 CB's (Yiadom & Langley just helping on ST's, the way the new rules are set up, we need speed on ST, they can at least do that) and not have McKenzie on the team.  Pacman removes that need to keep McKenzie.

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34 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

 

Sorry, but I can't agree Brock was a bust. He played real well for us in 2015. Without him we don't win a SB. He was light years ahead of where Lynch is.

Everything else I agree with.. 

Agreed. I was actually referring to Lynch and Tebow. I believe Brock was actually second rounder, correct?

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5 hours ago, 1234567 said:

Agreed. I was actually referring to Lynch and Tebow. I believe Brock was actually second rounder, correct?

Osweiler was a bust.  He played his role and was part of getting Denver to the SB in 2015, no doubt.  But he was drafted to be the future here in Denver and that didn’t happen.  Currently he’s not amounted to much more than an average backup.  Considering he was drafted in the top 60 and that’s a bust.

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39 minutes ago, germ-x said:

Osweiler was a bust.  He played his role and was part of getting Denver to the SB in 2015, no doubt.  But he was drafted to be the future here in Denver and that didn’t happen.  Currently he’s not amounted to much more than an average backup.  Considering he was drafted in the top 60 and that’s a bust.

For his career, yeah. As a Bronco, no. We brought in PM the same year we drafted Os. Os never had a chance to be the starter so played out his contract and left for the big bucks. Who can blame him.

His time here though got us a SB win. That alone makes him a good 2nd rd pick for Denver. Without his 14 point comeback win against the Pats we don't have home field advantage throughout the playoffs. NE in january is a tough place to play.

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