Training Camp Thread

[champ11]

11 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

It's amazing to think John Elway sat in a room with Paxton Lynch, and then again with Vance Joseph, and liked what he heard enough to determine they would be his QB and coach of the future respectively. Both of those guys seem like bumbling idiots and Elway handed them the keys. 

John must have been boozing pretty hard then. 

All the puff pieces we have gotten about Elway being the Stanford business man and surrounding himself w smart people tho 

[BroncoBruin]

I'm getting the impression from camp reports that DT has really become a shell of himself. Not surprising, he's such a big wide target for defenders to hit and has really taken a beating for the past six years (and never missed games). He is probably just a big possession guy at this point, and he doesn't have the great hands to become a consistent target in closely guarded situations. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

2 hours ago, champ11 said:

All the puff pieces we have gotten about Elway being the Stanford business man and surrounding himself w smart people tho 

I'm not going to pillory Elway. We have to give him credit for doing what was within the means to improve the team this year. Elway has made his mistakes, Vance, Paxton, last year's draft, to name some big ones, but every GM whiffs and makes bad choices. We've all said it numerous times that hiring Vance instead of Kyle is going to be a decision that haunts this organization for a decade, that will be clear to those who isn't already on Dec. 9. 

The thing now is that is that Elway can justify firing Vance if the results aren't there this year. It's obvious to anyone observing that he's in way over his head, as you and Ben rightly point out. That should help mitigate the damage and help prevent extending the narrative that Elway is difficult to work for, he fired Vance because he was incompetent, Kubes retired from a 100 hour/week job and Fox wasn't good enough to get us over the hump. Hopefully Baltimore has a bad year and John Harbaugh becomes available next January. 

And, seriously, I'm sitting here listening to The Fan and I'm having a hard time deciding which entity is more sychofantical to this team, MHR or the Pritchard and Cecil show. SMH. 

[champ11]

16 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I'm not going to pillory Elway. We have to give him credit for doing what was within the means to improve the team this year. Elway has made his mistakes, Vance, Paxton, last year's draft, to name some big ones, but every GM whiffs and makes bad choices. We've all said it numerous times that hiring Vance instead of Kyle is going to be a decision that haunts this organization for decades, that will be clear to those who isn't already on Dec. 9. 

Yeah I do think it was a fantastic offseason after an absolutely brutal couple. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

Good team preview here, honest, realistic, serious. Exactly what you would expect from MMQB. 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/07/31/denver-broncos-2018-nfl-preview

[AnAngryAmerican]

Want an example of how quickly rosters turn over in the modern NFL? Of the 90 players we currently have in camp, only 14 of them were on the Super Bowl 50 active roster.

They are: DeMaryius Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders, Max Garcia, Matt Paradis, Derek Wolfe, Brandon Marshall, Todd Davis, Von Miller, Shane Ray, Shaq Barrett, Chris Harris Jr., Bradley Roby, Darian Stewart and Brandon McManus.

Technically, there were three more, Jeff Heuerman was on IR and Jordan Taylor and Zaire Anderson were on the PS. But even still, 17 out of 90 is remarkable. 

[thebestever6]

Reading comps of Sutton to Hopkins if thats the case or anything close to that I'd be elated. I know its early but that pops out. Why do I feel our pre season game is so late this year?

[AnAngryAmerican]

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

Reading comps of Sutton to Hopkins if thats the case or anything close to that I'd be elated. I know its early but that pops out. Why do I feel our pre season game is so late this year?

I think the more accurate comparison to Sutton is Brandon Marshall. Sutton doesn’t have Hopkins’ athleticism. What were you reading, MHR? A Cecil Lammey blog post? 

[BroncoBruin]

I think Alshon is the best comparison I've heard. Sutton is a lot more finesse than a guy like Marshall. 

[thebestever6]

1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I think the more accurate comparison to Sutton is Brandon Marshall. Sutton doesn’t have Hopkins’ athleticism. What were you reading, MHR? A Cecil Lammey blog post? 

Honestly probably it was from james palmer on NFL network lol all these posts and news outlets make me wanna drink the koolaid. Thats why I try 5o stay away from it.

I truly believe this team has the roster talent in the AFC to have a 12 and 4 ceiling. I don't see that outcome because one there's always an injury or 2. And 2) i don't see Vance having a doug pederson renaissance year 2.

[champ11]

10 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Honestly probably it was from james palmer on NFL network lol all these posts and news outlets make me wanna drink the koolaid. Thats why I try 5o stay away from it.

I truly believe this team has the roster talent in the AFC to have a 12 and 4 ceiling. I don't see that outcome because one there's always an injury or 2. And 2) i don't see Vance having a doug pederson renaissance year 2.

Not even close to enough offensive talent to be a 12 win team IMO. RB, TE, OL still pretty huge question marks. And WR seems to be in good shape but we still don’t have an elite talent there. 

[thebestever6]

49 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Not even close to enough offensive talent to be a 12 win team IMO. RB, TE, OL still pretty huge question marks. And WR seems to be in good shape but we still don’t have an elite talent there. 

Huge question marks just means the position isn't solidified just yet but in all your cases I think the talent is still there to be extracted. And even if 12 and 4 is a stretch there's no doubt this team in the afc has a playoff caliber roster. And if Vance cant get us there his feet need to be held to the fire. 

 

I take what veterans say more seriously then media and coaches even. Because it's from players mouths they have no reason to lie. And I can't remember a camp so filled with veterans hyping up young players. I can't recall a roster turn around like this since becoming a fan. The o lines depth concerns me but thats a league wide issue.

I have seens veterans praise Chubb, how well the offensive line is playing this year from guys like Wolfe, I hear Veterans praise Sutton, Butt, Lindley, etc.

This team has the talent just not the conductor. 

[champ11]

4 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

Huge question marks just means the position isn't solidified just yet but in all your cases I think the talent is still there to be extracted. And even if 12 and 4 is a stretch there's no doubt this team in the afc has a playoff caliber roster. And if Vance cant get us there his feet need to be held to the fire. 

 

I take what veterans say more seriously then media and coaches even. Because it's from players mouths they have no reason to lie. And I can't remember a camp so filled with veterans hyping up young players. I can't recall a roster turn around like this since becoming a fan. The o lines depth concerns me but thats a league wide issue.

I have seens veterans praise Chubb, how well the offensive line is playing this year from guys like Wolfe, I hear Veterans praise Sutton, Butt, Lindley, etc.

This team has the talent just not the conductor. 

There is very little proven talent on the offensive side of the ball. If a couple of the unknown guys pop, sure, the team could be good. But realistically Booker, Henderson, Freeman, Lindsey, and Butt are not pro bowl type players. Hoping for solid starting level players at this point from any of those guys. I see a 9 or maaaybe 10 win ceiling if the Chiefs and Chargers aren't as good as expected. Good news is Case seems to be playing well and Sutton looks really good. But it's tough to take too much from TC until we see these guys in game action. 

[thebestever6]

5 hours ago, champ11 said:

There is very little proven talent on the offensive side of the ball. If a couple of the unknown guys pop, sure, the team could be good. But realistically Booker, Henderson, Freeman, Lindsey, and Butt are not pro bowl type players. Hoping for solid starting level players at this point from any of those guys. I see a 9 or maaaybe 10 win ceiling if the Chiefs and Chargers aren't as good as expected. Good news is Case seems to be playing well and Sutton looks really good. But it's tough to take too much from TC until we see these guys in game action. 

Well there's always going to be a lag when a team was so bad the year before. Look at the saints last year no one saw them doing what they did. And probowls mean squat imo its a popularity contest. This team has unproven players so I don't expect preseason talk of how many they can have. Bottom line, i don't think theres one person on this forum that thinks Vance Joseph will have this team playing like they should. 

[champ11]

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

Well there's always going to be a lag when a team was so bad the year before. Look at the saints last year no one saw them doing what they did. And probowls mean squat imo its a popularity contest. This team has unproven players so I don't expect preseason talk of how many they can have. Bottom line, i don't think theres one person on this forum that thinks Vance Joseph will have this team playing like they should. 

When I say pro bowl type players just take it like top 5-10 at their position. The actual pro bowl results are obviously a joke now. 

Being super positive on the unproven guys is fine. I'm not really that high on a lot of the guys but there is better depth. No way this is a 12 win team even with decent coaching, imo, but I think there will definitely be an improvement over next year. I think the Saints are a pretty unique situation. But yeah I agree on VJ.