Training Camp Thread

[germ-x]

I still have the opinion that Denver was a playoff team last year if they had average or better QB play.  I have that same opinion for this coming season.  Keenum is definitely an upgrade over Siemian/Lynch, but I am still not sold on him being a top 16 QB, but we’ll see.

Denver’s a better team this year than it was last year, at least on paper.  More talent on both sides of the ball and the team made additions that addressed weaknesses from last year.

QB is the most important position in all of sports and more important to a teams success than even an HC.  When you have arguably the worst QB play in the league you’re going to be a bad team, which is what we saw in Denver last year.  @AnAngryAmerican mentioned not hiring Kyle Shanahan would set Denver back a decade.  I don’t agree with that, what will set Denver back a decade is if they’re unable to find a legitimate long term QB.  The 49ers won 1 game last year juggling Hoyer and Beathard at QB.  Jimmy Garoppolo is added and the 49ers win 5 games.  Garoppolo is the reason to be excited about the future of the 49ers not Shanahan.  Keenum is a bandaid for Denver, he’s not a long term option, Elway should be on the hunt in the coming draft and willing to take a stab at drafting another QB high.

[champ11]

7 minutes ago, germ-x said:

I still have the opinion that Denver was a playoff team last year if they had average or better QB play.  I have that same opinion for this coming season.  Keenum is definitely an upgrade over Siemian/Lynch, but I am still not sold on him being a top 16 QB, but we’ll see.

Denver’s a better team this year than it was last year, at least on paper.  More talent on both sides of the ball and the team made additions that addressed weaknesses from last year.

QB is the most important position in all of sports and more important to a teams success than even an HC.  When you have arguably the worst QB play in the league you’re going to be a bad team, which is what we saw in Denver last year.  @AnAngryAmerican mentioned not hiring Kyle Shanahan would set Denver back a decade.  I don’t agree with that, what will set Denver back a decade is if they’re unable to find a legitimate long term QB.  The 49ers won 1 game last year juggling Hoyer and Beathard at QB.  Jimmy Garoppolo is added and the 49ers win 5 games.  Garoppolo is the reason to be excited about the future of the 49ers not Shanahan.  Keenum is a bandaid for Denver, he’s not a long term option, Elway should be on the hunt in the coming draft and willing to take a stab at drafting another QB high.

Do you think Keenum is a guy that would overcome meh play by the RBs, TE, and pass protection? Because I think that could very much happen again this year.

Maybe I'm being negative....really I should be happy that we may actually convert some third downs this year with Keenum 

[germ-x]

5 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Do you think Keenum is a guy that would overcome meh play by the RBs, TE, and pass protection? Because I think that could very much happen again this year.

Maybe I'm being negative....really I should be happy that we may actually convert some third downs this year with Keenum 

I agree that it could happen again this year.  It’s why I don’t think Keenum is the answer.  I will say, though, Keenum is a good scrambler and pretty athletic, which is an improvement over Siemian.  The Vikings OL isn’t much better than Denver’s either and he made it work there.  Who knows.  

[broncofan48]

25 minutes ago, germ-x said:

I agree that it could happen again this year.  It’s why I don’t think Keenum is the answer.  I will say, though, Keenum is a good scrambler and pretty athletic, which is an improvement over Siemian.  The Vikings OL isn’t much better than Denver’s either and he made it work there.  Who knows.  

Keenum is a huge upgrade IMO, not saying he's long term QBOTF but his first few years were held back by Jeff Fisher so maybe Musgrave can get the most out of him.  I'm really stoked on Sutton and think the WR corps is going to be a ton better than last year.  I also am hopeful/high on Jake Butt, if he can even just be consistent and an option at TE then that spots improved.  It all comes down to OL play and the running game IMO.  I think Bolles will be better especially with Leary playing next to him now.  The right side is a huge question mark though.  We really need Freeman to be an impact runner.

 

All in all, I expect KC to take a step back, SD was my SB pick for awhile but they are the Charger after all.  I think the AFC is weaker after NE, SD, and PITT leaving us with a really good opportunity to make the playoffs as a wildcard.  Maybe I'm drinking the koolaid

[jolly red giant]

On 30 July 2018 at 10:49 PM, AnAngryAmerican said:

The offense is very, very conservative, lots of check downs, short passes, three step drops and get the ball out quickly. It’s really a West Coast version of Mac’s offense from 2009 but with an actuall running game (which Mac’s didn’t have).

Is this a surprise - Musgrave ran a conservative offence with the Raiders, tailored to Carr - and Carr ended up passing for 8,000 yards. Not saying Keenum will do the same - but he doesn't have to with the potential on the defensive side of the ball.

[AnAngryAmerican]

I don't think there's any arguing that Case is a marked upgrade over the troika we threw out there last year but I'm going to remain cautious. Like I said, I think the team is clearly better this year on paper but we still have a doofus of a head coach, the youngest backfield in the league, an OL that is still a question mark and a totally unproven stable of TEs.

So far, the returns from Broncos training camp powered by Ford at the UC Health training center (thanks, Joe Ellis) have been positive but there has been one practice in pads. Vance comes out and says Case looks better than what he saw on tape - something the cheerleading media ran with - but remember Vance also said we had great practices last year. 

I will remain of the position that this is a .500ish team until I see something that changes my mind. The AFC is pretty loaded, New England, Pittsburgh, San Diego, Jacksonville, Houston, Indy with a healthy Luck, it's going to be tough to crack into the playoffs considering the competition. 

[champ11]

1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I don't think there's any arguing that Case is a marked upgrade over the troika we threw out there last year but I'm going to remain cautious. Like I said, I think the team is clearly better this year on paper but we still have a doofus of a head coach, the youngest backfield in the league, an OL that is still a question mark and a totally unproven stable of TEs.

So far, the returns from Broncos training camp powered by Ford at the UC Health training center (thanks, Joe Ellis) have been positive but there has been one practice in pads. Vance comes out and says Case looks better than what he saw on tape - something the cheerleading media ran with - but remember Vance also said we had great practices last year. 

I will remain of the position that this is a .500ish team until I see something that changes my mind. The AFC is pretty loaded, New England, Pittsburgh, San Diego, Jacksonville, Houston, Indy with a healthy Luck, it's going to be tough to crack into the playoffs considering the competition. 

Yeah I think .500 team with maybe a two win variation in either direction. People are assuming that TE, RB, right side of OL (and Bolles!) are going to be good when really we have no idea how it's going to turn out. Definitely possible, but I'd say fairly unlikely that they all work out.

I'm buying the Sutton hype though!!! I think him and Hamilton will really help the 3rd WR position which has been such an issue

[BroncoBruin]

11 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Yeah I think .500 team with maybe a two win variation in either direction. People are assuming that TE, RB, right side of OL (and Bolles!) are going to be good when really we have no idea how it's going to turn out. Definitely possible, but I'd say fairly unlikely that they all work out.

I'm buying the Sutton hype though!!! I think him and Hamilton will really help the 3rd WR position which has been such an issue

Don't forget Leary is injury prone and there's not a bit of depth along that OL. An okay line on paper could easily become a bottom 5 one. 

Another concern: If one of Harris or Roby goes down, the situation at corner will be really bad. 

[jsthomp2007]

1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I don't think there's any arguing that Case is a marked upgrade over the troika we threw out there last year but I'm going to remain cautious. Like I said, I think the team is clearly better this year on paper but we still have a doofus of a head coach, the youngest backfield in the league, an OL that is still a question mark and a totally unproven stable of TEs.

So far, the returns from Broncos training camp powered by Ford at the UC Health training center (thanks, Joe Ellis) have been positive but there has been one practice in pads. Vance comes out and says Case looks better than what he saw on tape - something the cheerleading media ran with - but remember Vance also said we had great practices last year. 

I will remain of the position that this is a .500ish team until I see something that changes my mind. The AFC is pretty loaded, New England, Pittsburgh, San Diego, Jacksonville, Houston, Indy with a healthy Luck, it's going to be tough to crack into the playoffs considering the competition. 

I do think the Broncos had a good a draft this year.  I think there are 3-4 guys that could stick around, which would be awesome to keep around for 4-5 years until their rookies contracts are due.  However, I am hoping that the Broncos are .500 this year, so that VJ can get canned and a coach who really knows how to mold these guys can takeover and lead a small dynasty with them, like the Seattle Seahawks run.  

[jolly red giant]

54 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Don't forget Leary is injury prone and there's not a bit of depth along that OL. An okay line on paper could easily become a bottom 5 one. 

Another concern: If one of Harris or Roby goes down, the situation at corner will be really bad. 

Losing anyone along the OL potentially cans the season - if we are expecting Watson or Garcia to step in we are in trouble.

[jolly red giant]

37 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

However, I am hoping that the Broncos are .500 this year, so that VJ can get canned and a coach who really knows how to mold these guys can takeover and lead a small dynasty with them, like the Seattle Seahawks run.  

I really don't get a comment like this - I want the Broncos to win the SB - I don't want the Broncos to go 8-8 just to get rid Joseph - I have no problem with Joseph getting the boot if we go 8-8 - but that is not the season that I want to see happening.

[broncofan48]

1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said:

Don't forget Leary is injury prone and there's not a bit of depth along that OL. An okay line on paper could easily become a bottom 5 one. 

Another concern: If one of Harris or Roby goes down, the situation at corner will be really bad. 

Depth is an issue but unlike Leary Harris and Roby have been pretty durable.  

[BroncoBruin]

4 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

Depth is an issue but unlike Leary Harris and Roby have been pretty durable.  

Yeah, I can't remember either ever missing a game. 

[AKRNA]

My take’s a little different. As far as skill positions we’ve upgraded those at QB, added WR depth and plenty of talent at RB. TE’s are an unknown but don’t have to do much to improve on last year. That group set a pretty low bar.

Added a pretty solid draft class, huge upgrade at punter, shouldn’t have a problem upgrading the KR/PR spot, and our defense should be deeper and improved.

IMO, this years record will be largely dependent on our OL improving noticeably. That’s a pretty low bar also and coaching moves have already been made to strengthen it.

The first improvement was firing the OL coach (he of the rotating OG’s, putting Leary on the right side where he’s below average instead of leaving him where he belongs at LG, expecting our 1^st rd LT to improve without drastic technique upgrades, then putting one of the worst LG’s in the league next to him.) Our OL coach was awful!

Leary’s back where he belongs. Bolles will benefit greatly and should cut down a lot on his penalties and overall play. Paradis should be back at full strength and Veldheer is a tremendous upgrade over Watson at RT. McGovern has the skills to handle RG and hopefully he builds on his performance last year.

Depth is a big question mark but a guy like Sam Jones should help there. Kouandjio has to step this year or his once promising career will be about over.

AS the OL goes so goes the team. Musgrave is incorporating more moving pockets and other items that won’t expose Ol weaknesses nearly as much as McCoys. Good news is all early reports are promising.

I’d imagine an 8-8 or 9-7 season is reasonable but i'd be much more surprised at a 4 to 6 win season than I would a 12 win season. We’ll have a much better idea once we can see them in action.

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

3 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Broncos training camp powered by Ford at the UC Health training center (thanks, Joe Ellis)

I was with you about this AAA until my wife and kids went to camp yesterday. Bottle water was $1?! Souvenirs for <$10?!? This is in stark contrast to when I last went in 2013 where we were paying close to stadium prices. They can sell the naming rights to camp all they want if they are going to continue to pass that savings onto the fans