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The official training camp thread


MWil23

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1 hour ago, brownie man said:

his name is Desmond Harrison 

and he has been looking pretty awesome since he's got back 

basically the last few games

Desmond Harrison at Left Tackle to me has looked just as good if not potenitally better than Corbett at LG

I don’t get to say this often but I saw him as one of the only viable starting LTs in this draft. I had Harrison going to us consistently in the 3rd. I felt his potential outweighed his issues and small school play. Glad to see he might be getting a shot.

he was absolutely dominant in college (as he should have been at that level).

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3 hours ago, brownie man said:

his name is Desmond Harrison 

and he has been looking pretty awesome since he's got back 

basically the last few games

Desmond Harrison at Left Tackle to me has looked just as good if not potenitally better than Corbett at LG

Idk Harrison went against 2s and mainly 3s. Corb was going against 1s and 2s

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Those that are at a loss for how such decisions could be made regarding Joel Bitonio being moved back to LG and Harrison going to LT... it helps to take a short trip down memory lane:

Who was our best option at LT at the time Joel Bitonio was moved to LT????

Here's your choices in terms of who was available:

1.) Austin Corbett

2.) Shon Coleman

3.) Greg Robinson

4.) Chris Hubbard

That means we had no real options at LT. As a result, moving Bitonio to LT made complete sense as we did not know if we'd be able to acquire another LT or how long Desmond Harrison would be out.

Flash forward... Desmond Harrison is finally healthy and gets some snaps in-game.. he looks solid...

Corbett also gets snaps at LG and looks solid at times and bad at others...

All along, we knew that Bitonio at LG was just a short-term fix likely and Joel said so himself..

Now, we sit here today and the coaches are strongly thinking about the possibility that the Combo of Desmond Harrison LT and Joel Bitnonio LG is a stronger combo than LT Joel Bitonio and  LG Austin Corbett...

Good news is the latter is a lineup that can be reverted to in the event that the Harrison LT // Bitonio LG lineup doesn't work...

Joel didn't just forget how to play LG.... with some practice reps.. he'll likely be just fine...

While it is far from ideal... it does make sense... and if Harrison proves himself... it will be valuable to make this move for this year and the following ones...

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5 hours ago, Kiwibrown said:

I hope we haven't cost bitonio an all pro season at LG by losing reps there. 

Practice does matter even if he plays well there.

Agreed.   Practice and cohesion is critical on the Oline.  We keep bouncing him and others around it hurts development. 

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I don't think giving Harrison the start at LT is the concerning factor here. Many of you know how highly I think of him.

What is a concern, however, is the projected incompetence of this decision with one week to go until the opener against Pittsburgh. 

Still, if they think he's ready, dammit I'm gonna trust em. I know how talented this kid is, and while I didn't expect it to happen this soon, I think he can do a damn fine job. He's gonna have some bad plays, absolutely, but he can hold his own.

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2 minutes ago, Powertower said:

Agreed.   Practice and cohesion is critical on the Oline.  We keep bouncing him and others around it hurts development. 

It's not ideal, but what's the alternative?? Just keeping Bitonio at LT and prolonging the decision...

Here's another interesting tidbit.... would we rather have:

1.) TJ Watt/Bud Dupree VS. Desmond Harrison and Cam Heyward VS. Joel Bitonio?

-OR-

2.) TJ Watt/Bud Dupree VS Joel Bitonio and Cam Heyward VS Austin Corbett?

If Harrison can really step up based on mental assignments... then it's clear to me that option 1 with the Bitonio vs Heyward matchup makes more sense gameplan wise at preventing inside pressure..

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1 minute ago, MistaBohmbastic said:

I don't think giving Harrison the start at LT is the concerning factor here. Many of you know how highly I think of him.

What is a concern, however, is the projected incompetence of this decision with one week to go until the opener against Pittsburgh. 

Still, if they think he's ready, dammit I'm gonna trust em. I know how talented this kid is, and while I didn't expect it to happen this soon, I think he can do a damn fine job. He's gonna have some bad plays, absolutely, but he can hold his own.

Sub-optimal... yes... uncomfortable.. correct... but incompetent?

How is the decision incompetent???

Was it incompetent to move Bitonio to LT when we did???

At that time the only LT options were: 1) Joel Bitonio, 2.) Shon Coleman, 3.) Austin Corbett, 4.) Chris Hubbard, 5.) Greg Robinson 

Desmond Harrison was Hurt.... and just played his first full starter reps in the last preseason game (albeit against lesser comp b/c it was the last preseason game0.

The game before was the dress rehearsal for the starters and Harrison's first sustained game action back from injury.

They played Corbett damn near the entire game for 4 straight weeks... they have tons of film of him at LG....tons...

This is literally the first week where it would be possible to make a switch of Bitonio back to LG and Harrison starting at LT.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

And the kicker -- Check out the Steelers match-up options:

1.) TJ Watt/Bud Dupree VS. Desmond Harrison and Cam Heyward VS. Joel Bitonio?

-OR-

2.) TJ Watt/Bud Dupree VS Joel Bitonio and Cam Heyward VS Austin Corbett?

Heyward is the threat... it makes more sense to put that threat against our best OL....

It's not ideal, but what's the alternative?? Just keeping Bitonio at LT and prolonging the switch decision...what.. did you think Bitonio was going to play LT the whole season??

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Just now, bruceb said:

Or maybe easing into the decision?

Not the time to be making abrupt changes.

I hear you Bruce.... it really is a terrible time to make changes to the OL, and you're absolutely right that easing into things might be better, but here's the thing... the match-up favors the immediate change...

Here's our matchup options:

1.) TJ Watt/Bud Dupree VS. Desmond Harrison and Cam Heyward VS. Joel Bitonio?

-OR-

2.) TJ Watt/Bud Dupree VS Joel Bitonio and Cam Heyward VS Austin Corbett?

Heyward is the inside pressure/disrupter threat... it makes more sense to put that threat against our best OL....

Dupree is average... TJ watt is good, but he can be handled well by an athletic LT that can push him on the outside or at least delay his rush from affecting the QB... in the 34 wide align that the Steelers run... he's the furthest pass rush threat in terms of distance from the QB.

It's not ideal, but if the coaches really believe the combo of LT Harrison and LG Bitonio is better than the combo of LT Bitonio and LG Corbett... now is the time to make the switch...

It feels bad on the surface, but it's probably the best move (assuming Harrison is actually solid.)

 

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@Mind Character Your response completely ignores my whole point. I agree Harrison makes sense. I agree he has the ability to be the better LT over Bitonio. 

My point, however, is HOW this came about. The *projected* incompetence I spoke of - and I highlight "projected" because the aforementioned incompetence that so many seem to perceive IS the source of this backlash - originates in the way this has played out. I get that coaches have to express 100% confidence in their decisions, even if they have an ideal plan that would require circling back on said decision, but this is the reality. People on here, the media...they're eating Hue alive for the way this happened. You can't deny that. You just can't.

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@MistaBohmbastic

Okay. Got it. Understood on the The "projected incompetence" thing versus "actual incompetence" thing.

For me, I understand that to be "perceived incompetence"... and that perception is not always reality when it comes to the Bitonio LT versus LG decision.

...and of course the move to put Bitonio back at guard is being "perceived as incompetence" by Hue... as are all things that lend themselves to the feel-good anger at Hue the Head Coach of our terrible football team.

However, that is for multiple reasons external to the actually quality or context around the decision itself... things we've all talked about ad nauseam about Hue.

At this point, every decision that makes we fans uncomfortable or uncertain is going to be blamed on Hue's incompetence b/c people hate him and/or believe they have tons of mounting evidence regarding his incompetence.

To me, the HOW the decision played out was not determined at the time of he decision as the coaches did not know that Corbett would struggle as he has at LG... they also did not know that Harrison would elevate so quickly after being injured and play so well outside of one glaring play.

If fans, can't understand that and want to just grasp at the low hanging fruit of "here's Hue's incompetence showing its head again" ... then so be it...

Those fans aren't likely to remember who our options were when Bitonio was made LT and likely haven't watched Corbett's struggles and/or Harrison's successes in games to know why this sub-optimal decision may have been made already (we don't now for sure if Bitonio is the LG again)

At this point, the season is here... and nothing will ever sway people's belief about Hue unless we achieve sustained winning...

Even still the decision to move Bitonio to LT was a competent one... and the the decision to move him back to LG to face Cam Heyward with Corbett struggling at LG and Desmond Harrison ascending at LT is also a competent one... but still a decision that doesn't feel good at all and is marked by much uncertainty and uneasiness ...

The season can't get here fast enough...

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9 hours ago, Powertower said:

Agreed.   Practice and cohesion is critical on the Oline.  We keep bouncing him and others around it hurts development. 

What does it hurt tho when you are trying to find a LT and possibly your 5 best linemen. 

IMO over the preseason Corb looked better than Harrison but we don’t see what is going on fully during practice and meetings. If theybtruly believe Harrison and Bit is a better combo than Bit and Corb, then you have to give it a shot. From what I have seen I thought Harrison would be a season to half a season away but maybe they really love what he can do. Hey if they are doing all of this for an UFDA, maybe w struck gold and won’t have to waste a high pick on a guy and landed the next franchise LT. Harrison has the god given ability to be a franchise LT, just have to worry about him putting everything else together to achieve it. 

With that, just makes me believe that either JCT or Zeit will be good next year so Corb potentially has a spot 

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