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One thing disappointing about this game is how little story there is outside the gyms.  The whole sword/shield story line is fine but you don't really do anything outside talking to Sonia.  The old games used to have pretty substantial 'quests' dealing with Team Rocket and such.  Gyms 6-8 literally had one route between them where there was like 4 trainers to fight.  

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23 minutes ago, flyers0909 said:

One thing disappointing about this game is how little story there is outside the gyms.  The whole sword/shield story line is fine but you don't really do anything outside talking to Sonia.  The old games used to have pretty substantial 'quests' dealing with Team Rocket and such.  Gyms 6-8 literally had one route between them where there was like 4 trainers to fight.  

Lemme be real for a sec... this has substantially added to the replay-ability for me, mostly because the recent games have had pretty awful stories (B/W was great). My fav gen of all time is 2, and the long, boring Rocket issue between the 7th and 8th gyms really bogs that game down to me. 

I've beaten the game twice and can see myself going through it again with the DLC already. God help me if Team Yell had a bigger story arc

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16 minutes ago, JBURGE said:

Lemme be real for a sec... this has substantially added to the replay-ability for me, mostly because the recent games have had pretty awful stories (B/W was great). My fav gen of all time is 2, and the long, boring Rocket issue between the 7th and 8th gyms really bogs that game down to me. 

I've beaten the game twice and can see myself going through it again with the DLC already. God help me if Team Yell had a bigger story arc

That's fair, it was just kind of boring last night. I went from beating Gym 6, surfing on route 9 and fighting 3/4 people, beating Gym 7 in a place where there was nothing to do except the gym, then backtracking to a town I've already been in where there was one trainer fight on the way and the only thing to do is the last Gym.  For as gorgeous as the game is, the towns just feel so empty.  Outside of the looks, is there anything memorable or fun to do in any of the cities?

I do agree though, Team Yell is brutal and having to put up with any more of them would have been pretty bad.  Although they just replaced that time with Hop complaining so it's kind of a wash.  

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16 minutes ago, flyers0909 said:

That's fair, it was just kind of boring last night. I went from beating Gym 6, surfing on route 9 and fighting 3/4 people, beating Gym 7 in a place where there was nothing to do except the gym, then backtracking to a town I've already been in where there was one trainer fight on the way and the only thing to do is the last Gym.  For as gorgeous as the game is, the towns just feel so empty.  Outside of the looks, is there anything memorable or fun to do in any of the cities?

I do agree though, Team Yell is brutal and having to put up with any more of them would have been pretty bad.  Although they just replaced that time with Hop complaining so it's kind of a wash.  

It will boil down to what each person wants from a Pokemon game, and why no game will be perfect for everyone. This game hits a bunch of my biggest wants: 

  • tolerable amount of hand holding
  • wide pool of pokemon to catch, early and mid game
  • lack of drawn out, cringey bad team
  • GYMS (sun and moon lol)

The dynamax ended up being a small overall part of the story and game which is awesome. I hated the idea at first, but it's only for the gym battles anyway. The raids are a cool idea that I actually like quite a bit. 

One major thing I would change about this game is the starters... imo the worst pool we've ever had. This was my same issue with Gen 5. Snivy was cool but pretty useless, Emboar is a disgrace, and Samurott is.... usable but pretty lame design imo. This year they all just have uninspiring designs, and being mono-type is boring. 

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1 hour ago, JBURGE said:

One major thing I would change about this game is the starters... imo the worst pool we've ever had. This was my same issue with Gen 5. Snivy was cool but pretty useless, Emboar is a disgrace, and Samurott is.... usable but pretty lame design imo. This year they all just have uninspiring designs, and being mono-type is boring. 

I disagree.  They weren't good by any means, but I don't think they were huge flops.  I was a Grookey fan at the beginning, but it wasn't very viable later on.  The lack of movepool variety killed it.  Intelleon actually was a pretty useful Pokemon, but poor design and bad defenses really limited it's flexibilty.  Cinderace was probably the best of the bunch, but design seemed a bit poor.  Just going through starters throughout the generations.

Gen 1 - Charmander is the GOAT starter.  Or at last up there.  Squirtle was a good backup if you didn't like the starter Pokemon.  Bulbasaur was useless because of it's Poison type with how much Psychic types dominated this generation.
Gen 2 - They all sucked.  Cynadquil had an awful movepool, Chikorita was defensive-oriented, and Totodile's moves weren't aligned with the stats.
Gen 3 - By far, the best starters from top to bottom.  Treeko, Torchic, and Mudkip all had viability.
Gen 4 - Really interesting types with Grass/Ground and Water/Steel with Torterra and Empoleon.  Infernape was okay, nothing special.
Gen 5 - A HUGE flop on all of the starters.  Right on par with Gen 2.
Gen 6 - Much like Gen 4, interesting typing with Fire/Psychic and Water/Dark.  Chesnaught was useless, other than in a utility role.
Gen 7 - Probably the most interesting type combinations, but this generation is going to be known for how bad the generation was then the starters.
Gen 8 - Best way to describe this would be basic.  Nothing splashy about the starters whether it be by design or move pool/usage.

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2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I disagree.  They weren't good by any means, but I don't think they were huge flops.  I was a Grookey fan at the beginning, but it wasn't very viable later on.  The lack of movepool variety killed it.  Intelleon actually was a pretty useful Pokemon, but poor design and bad defenses really limited it's flexibilty.  Cinderace was probably the best of the bunch, but design seemed a bit poor.  Just going through starters throughout the generations.

Gen 1 - Charmander is the GOAT starter.  Or at last up there.  Squirtle was a good backup if you didn't like the starter Pokemon.  Bulbasaur was useless because of it's Poison type with how much Psychic types dominated this generation.
Gen 2 - They all sucked.  Cynadquil had an awful movepool, Chikorita was defensive-oriented, and Totodile's moves weren't aligned with the stats.
Gen 3 - By far, the best starters from top to bottom.  Treeko, Torchic, and Mudkip all had viability.
Gen 4 - Really interesting types with Grass/Ground and Water/Steel with Torterra and Empoleon.  Infernape was okay, nothing special.
Gen 5 - A HUGE flop on all of the starters.  Right on par with Gen 2.
Gen 6 - Much like Gen 4, interesting typing with Fire/Psychic and Water/Dark.  Chesnaught was useless, other than in a utility role.
Gen 7 - Probably the most interesting type combinations, but this generation is going to be known for how bad the generation was then the starters.
Gen 8 - Best way to describe this would be basic.  Nothing splashy about the starters whether it be by design or move pool/usage.

If we're going to limit gen 2 to how it played on the original Gold/Silver, fine. They sucked. However, Feraligatr and Typhlosion are pretty good designs, and are at LEAST much better designs than Gen 8 mono-type. But being mono-type, all of their move pools suck. 

I used Grookey 1st play through, and yeah I had to ditch him because his move pool was awful. Intelleon is useful because water has a lot of type coverage. Haven't used Cinderace but the design is so awful to me. 

Let's rank them! I am going to rank them MOSTLY on design, while also considering usefulness NOW, not when they came out. 

  1. Gen 1 (GOAT)
  2. Gen 3 (close 2nd, all starters viable and cool designs, Blaziken is the OG fire/fighting so he doesn't get the flak the others do)
  3. Gen 6 (Greninja is a top 3 starter imo)
  4. Gen 4 (Honestly I didn't love them at the time but hindsight has made me like them a lot more)
  5. Gen 7 (dragged down by the cat)
  6. Gen 2 (like you said, not useful, mono-type but still better designs imo than the bottom 2)
  7. Gen 5 (Awful designs. Snivy line is cool but not viable)
  8. Gen 8 (booooo)
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1 minute ago, JBURGE said:

putting Gen 8 in the same tier as Gen 6 and 4 is the worst thing you've ever done

Cinderace and Intelleon are somewhat viable.  They lack any stability with their poor defenses, but they at least can hit hard and quick.  If you want to make a separate tier for them, sure.

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